Difference between SD conversion and remap? [Archive] - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum

Difference between SD conversion and remap?

dobzevo6
20-09-2014, 11:33
As above, I've had quotes for both and the power outcome is about the same but a SD conversion is quite a bit more expensive. Why would you have this done instead of a remap or am I getting my wires crossed completely?
Thanks

richyx
20-09-2014, 11:52
Gettin wires crossed

Sd removes the maf sensor which is known to fail

Sd costs more because you have to have extra sensors supplied and fitted as well as loom mods then a re map on sd

The difference should be night and day after being a lot more smoother in drive ability as well and one of the best mods you can do to the car

Aidy
20-09-2014, 12:14
As above, I've had quotes for both and the power outcome is about the same but a SD conversion is quite a bit more expensive. Why would you have this done instead of a remap or am I getting my wires crossed completely?
Thanks

Both will be remaps, just one a remap with your existing manifold air flow sensor (MAF), and one will be a remap after converting it to a speed density (SD). They are different ways of working out how much air is going into the engine. If you're just after a basic remap, maybe with exhaust\air filter, you're better sticking with the MAF. MAF is far more tolerant of various atmospheric conditions, an SD car will need a remap for almost anything you do with it. SD is just one of those current MLR fads, I was reading another thread where braided brake hoses are the best mod you can do to the car and will transform it; everything is considered the best thing you can do that will transform the car. It's nonsense really :) Your car is running a maf now, if it is in standard trim is it jerky or not smooth? Do you have part-throttle issues? I'm betting the answer is no, so why spend money solving a problem you don't have?

If you're just looking for 350-400 horses and aren't really going to be turning it into a rally car then don't bother with SD.

Rocco
20-09-2014, 14:48
What's exactly " part throttle " issues?

Should go always fine, right?

Mita
20-09-2014, 16:23
This one has always confused me a bit, people who have had it say "oh its so great now, no jerkyness etc" well I don't have any anyway!!! Maybe its after a bad map on maf its jerky? Mine is 100% factory at min so maybe that's why its smooth :)

Aidy
20-09-2014, 16:50
What's exactly " part throttle " issues?

Should go always fine, right?

Part throttle means when you are accelerating, but not with your foot to the floor (WOT - wide open throttle). The car should still behave no matter how much you are pushing the accelerator. In a straight line you always have your foot to the floor, and cars tend to be mapped this way, at full throttle. But when you're mid corner, and coming out of a corner it is important you have good part-throttle control and that the car remains smooth and responsive.

This one has always confused me a bit, people who have had it say "oh its so great now, no jerkyness etc" well I don't have any anyway!!! Maybe its after a bad map on maf its jerky? Mine is 100% factory at min so maybe that's why its smooth :)

Factory fresh is the best your car will ever drive. Mitsubishi spent millions developing the car to be a good road car and they did a bang-up job. It works while driving to Tesco and it works storming down a country road or on track. When the BOV on my VIII went I replaced it with an aftermarket one and the car just didn't part-throttle, no matter how I adjusted the BOV. Maybe I should have spent more time setting the BOV up, but it didn't seem to make a difference, there might have been a "sweet spot" I was missing :shrug: Ironically I think SD would have helped with this :lol: If the car has an aftermarket boost controller than can also affect how well the car drives, but it's not really a reflection of the map, just that 20 of Japanese electronics isn't going to do as good a job as what Mitsi built into the car.

todd-w
20-09-2014, 17:46
Sd removes the maf sensor which is known to fail



Applies more to the X than evos 1 -9 :crackup:

todd-w
20-09-2014, 17:48
If you're just looking for 350-400 horses and aren't really going to be turning it into a rally car then don't bother with SD.


not just a big power conversion it has benefits at all levels of tune

Aidy
20-09-2014, 18:28
not just a big power conversion it has benefits at all levels of tune

Not that anyone would notice, and not without downsides. For most road cars it's just not worth it.

dangerousdave
20-09-2014, 18:59
I'm not so sure, I'm sd converted on mine with a standard e8 rs turbo with mr exhaust housing. It's forged with gsc s2 cams on standard pulleys and has a sports cat fitted and is mapped on the cheapest super unleaded and not v power (mainly so I'm not tied to having to find a local shell garage when I'm on track). At Dynotech it made 420/487 at 1.9bar. I very much doubt you'd get anywhere near that with the restriction of the maf in the inlet pipe but I'm happy to be proved wrong. A few people are seeing similar or lower figures from an 80 series, decat and v power!

I wonder if bob and lee have any graphs of some of the conversions before and after conversion. From when I was in the market I vaguely remember whitti's car that had a back to back comparison on here and that gained around 20hp....but it was well over a year ago so I'm a little hazy!

Aidy
20-09-2014, 19:16
You won't even notice 20BHP, and how much did that extra 20 BHP cost? I never said SD was useless, I said unless you're chasing big power it's a waste of money, especially given the downsides that (as usual on here) no-one mentions.

2+barplease
20-09-2014, 21:15
What are the downsides ?

todd-w
20-09-2014, 21:22
Not that anyone would notice, and not without downsides. For most road cars it's just not worth it.

You would notice immediately , it is worth it without a doubt , what downsides you on about ??? .Are you speaking from experience ???

Aidy
20-09-2014, 22:15
I've already mentioned the downsides, SD is intolerant to changes in atmosphere or the car itself. If you've spunked money on SD without knowing the downsides then more the fool you and you're not in a position to advise others. People should know all the facts before making a decision.

todd-w
20-09-2014, 22:33
I've already mentioned the downsides, SD is intolerant to changes in atmosphere or the car itself. If you've spunked money on SD without knowing the downsides then more the fool you and you're not in a position to advise others. People should know all the facts before making a decision.

so what your saying is big power cars are ok yet stockish or lightly tuned arent

Unobtainium
20-09-2014, 22:39
Somebody get a mapper on this thread :lol:

Aidy
20-09-2014, 22:41
so what your saying is big power cars are ok yet stockish or lightly tuned arent

*you're

will2
20-09-2014, 22:42
Somebody get a mapper on this thread :lol:

We have one already :)

will2
20-09-2014, 22:43
*you're

:mhihi:.....

dangerousdave
20-09-2014, 22:43
I noticed the difference between it making 400/440 to the 420/487 it is now after I changed the injectors and ported the exhaust manifold. Granted it didn't set the world on fire but you could feel a little more punch for sure, the graph was higher all over with only 10-20hp gains.

As for downsides I'm yet to find any and it pulls like a train no matter the weather, no lumpiness or hesitation ever?!

will2
20-09-2014, 22:45
adding any breathing/exhaust mod would have me getting the map checked/tweeked anyway to be safe ......so same on SD or uber sensitive? I may be "S"uper "D"ense :angel:

dobzevo6
20-09-2014, 22:46
Seems to be lots of different opinions here. Interesting reading!

Unobtainium
20-09-2014, 22:47
it pulls like a train

Aidy "it pulls like a train" :la: :crackup:

He hates that phrase. :mhihi:

will2
20-09-2014, 22:48
I noticed the difference between it making 400/440 to the 420/487 it is now after I changed the injectors and ported the exhaust manifold. Granted it didn't set the world on fire but you could feel a little more punch for sure, the graph was higher all over with only 10-20hp gains.

As for downsides I'm yet to find any and it pulls like a train no matter the weather, no lumpiness or hesitation ever?!Happy camper sir :smthumbup...but would love to see the MAF to SD change WITHOUT any other mods (you mentioned injectors /porting the mani :))[email protected] same boost/fuelling etc ...a carbon copy so to speak ! What say thee ?

Unobtainium
20-09-2014, 22:49
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ecuflash/536680-what-speed-density.html

Aidy
20-09-2014, 22:50
As for downsides I'm yet to find any

Well that's ok then, you heard it here first. SD has no downsides :rolleyes:

Unobtainium
20-09-2014, 22:51
Aren't most after market Ecus Sd?

will2
20-09-2014, 22:54
Aren't most after market Ecus Sd?

All more like http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/searching-019.gif

Unobtainium
20-09-2014, 23:02
All more like http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Thinking/searching-019.gif

No, not all, one of the Apexi Power FCs uses a MAF.

https://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=242131

will2
20-09-2014, 23:07
No, not all, one of the Apexi Power FCs uses a MAF.

https://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=242131
True ,the L-Jet iirc ...I had the D- Jet (D for density ? )

6evo
20-09-2014, 23:15
I have never heard anyone complain about an sd conversion, all round it seems to be a better way to set up a car and if the only draw back that can be mentioned is you have to have it fine tuned to suit your modifications then so what?

Aidy
20-09-2014, 23:25
Look, I've already admitted I was wrong, SD has no downsides whatsoever, Mitsubishi might have won multiple rallies but they don't know half of what people on the MLR know. Can I still be a member of the cool gang please? I'll promise to say that mods are unilaterally good. Even if the OP just wants 50 more BHP I'll push them down the route of aftermarket ECUs and having a car that spends more time in the shop than it does on the road because advice is universal, and what is good for Group N is good for the road.

I'm soooo desperate to be one of the cool gang, will you please accept me??? My ego is ever so fragile :cry:

will2
20-09-2014, 23:30
Look, I've already admitted I was wrong, SD has no downsides whatsoever, Mitsubishi might have won multiple rallies but they don't know half of what people on the MLR know. Can I still be a member of the cool gang please? I'll promise to say that mods are unilaterally good. Even if the OP just wants 50 more BHP I'll push them down the route of aftermarket ECUs and having a car that spends more time in the shop than it does on the road because advice is universal, and what is good for Group N is good for the road.

I'm soooo desperate to be one of the cool gang, will you please accept me??? My ego is ever so fragile :cry::crackup:......yet much sense n sensibility ...big wallets get big bills for go faster stripes ;)#
Im happy with my MAF , despite ditching my PFC D jet ...but im as mad as Madkris ......http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Respect/respect-055.gif

todd-w
20-09-2014, 23:35
Look, I've already admitted I was wrong, SD has no downsides whatsoever, Mitsubishi might have won multiple rallies but they don't know half of what people on the MLR know. Can I still be a member of the cool gang please? I'll promise to say that mods are unilaterally good. Even if the OP just wants 50 more BHP I'll push them down the route of aftermarket ECUs and having a car that spends more time in the shop than it does on the road because advice is universal, and what is good for Group N is good for the road.

I'm soooo desperate to be one of the cool gang, will you please accept me??? My ego is ever so fragile :cry:



*you're an

Jakeh
20-09-2014, 23:35
I have no expertise to bring to this, but a MAF seems a much more sophisticated sensor arrangement, so it has always puzzled me why it something so on the face of it technically cruder is seen as so desirable. Interested in the answers here.

Unobtainium
21-09-2014, 01:35
have you ever met someone who purposely hates anything that is popular because he thinks it's cool to be such an individual?

don't they talk crap with their chips on their shoulders? :lol:

they want to be an individual soooo desperately they.... I mean he, bought a ten and spent a load of money making it yellow. wow, what a rebel, what an individual. he secretly thinks he's really cool, something he just couldn't manage at school, hence the "cool gang" comments, so he's trying to make up for it now.

and he thinks mitsi are amazing because they won multiple championships. :lol:

they didn't manage to make a ten's rods very strong did they? nor even make the ten a fast car. no, we needed the mlr tuners to make a ten really good, and aidy hates that ;)

keithmac
21-09-2014, 07:43
I have no expertise to bring to this, but a MAF seems a much more sophisticated sensor arrangement, so it has always puzzled me why it something so on the face of it technically cruder is seen as so desirable. Interested in the answers here.

MAF is actual metered air ingested by the engine, Speed Density is a "best guess" based on manifold pressure and air temperature.

Most manufacturers us MAF because it is far more resilient to changes in engine (due to wear, modifications etc).

Compared to the robust Karman Vortex sensor, Map sensors aren't that much more reliable. Restriction before the turbo is the main drawback to the stock sensor (over 400bhp?).

I run a blow through MAF, virtually no restriction and a "proper" measurement of air entering ths engine.

Lee5
21-09-2014, 08:53
The X runs on SD after a set rpm

Unobtainium
21-09-2014, 09:40
The X runs on SD after a set rpm

egg in aidy's face? :lol:

Aidy
21-09-2014, 12:15
The X runs on SD after a set rpm

First off, that's wrong. The X has both MAF and MAP and uses a combo of both to work out air flow, as in some situations MAP is better than MAF and vice versa. However the tables can be manipulated to ensure one or the other is used so you could certainly tune it to use SD at high revs, but it doesn't come like that out of the box. In standard trim the car still uses the MAF to ensure engine safety. I'm quite sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

Second off, your comment doesn't really have any relevance to the thread which is about if converting a non-SD car to SD is worth the money and the pros and cons of that situation. Sad to see a mod deliberately trolling.

dangerousdave
21-09-2014, 12:24
Happy camper sir :smthumbup...but would love to see the MAF to SD change WITHOUT any other mods (you mentioned injectors /porting the mani :))[email protected] same boost/fuelling etc ...a carbon copy so to speak ! What say thee ?

Like I said I'd be interested to see a back to back comparison as I'm sure you'd see a noticeable difference. The map was just tweeked to suit those changes after the initial sd conversion saw the injectors at almost 100% duty, I think lee managed to run a touch more boost but it was minimal as the turbo was pretty much at its limits anyway. I do around 160 miles on track each time I do a trackday so it needed to be safe to take some abuse rather than chasing the highest figures.

Aidy you might want to check google for the definition of a MAF sensor.
Both will be remaps, just one a remap with your existing manifold air flow sensor (MAF)

Also did the championship winning gp.A cars run with MAF sensors?

Aidy
21-09-2014, 12:31
Is the person asking the question building a gp A car? Is he doing 160 track miles a year? If not why are you giving him advice based on your circumstances which are completely different from his?

badwool
21-09-2014, 12:41
Map is well better than maf cos maf sensors make ur induction luk **** innit

dangerousdave
21-09-2014, 12:49
The op asked why you would have it done over a normal remap. I've not told him he needs to get it done, merely shared my experience with the conversion. That way he can make his own mind up from a couple of people with experience of it as well rather than only seeing negative posts from people who have only thought about it.

Edited to add he hasn't stated his circumstances as far as I can see? If his circumstances turn out to be similar to mine then he can be confident that he can go for the conversion knowing that the car will start every day and work fine, not needing a map tweek every time you drive it if its not broken in the garage because of a sensor change like you are suggesting!

richyx
21-09-2014, 12:55
Well I for one can't wIt to get rid of my maf, due to there being a common problem of always failing due to age and heat cycles

Sd makes things simple, can run a bigger air intake with no restriction as well

I don't know any rally cars running maf sensors either, not even mitis ran them on there wrc that you have said have spent thousands to win championships they still got rid of the maf

You can't go wrong with sd in my eyes, as it's just an air temp sensors and map sensor that replace the maf, and these very rarely fail

Aidy
21-09-2014, 13:03
The op asked why you would have it done over a normal remap. I've not told him he needs to get it done, merely shared my experience with the conversion. That way he can make his own mind up from a couple of people with experience of it as well rather than only seeing negative posts from people who have only thought about it.


Then I do apologise. I thought your explanation that rally cars and cars that are use on the track a lot might be better on SD was advice that the OP would also be better on SD. I guess my English interpretation isn't as good as I thought it was and there is actually some unrelated reason you posted on this thread the things that you did. Still, at least we're now all clear.

Well I for one can't wIt to get rid of my maf, due to there being a common problem of always failing due to age and heat cycles


The OP doesn't have an X, his MAF isn't prone to fail so, like everyone else jumping on the bandwagon, your comments aren't particularly relevant.

richyx
21-09-2014, 13:35
I never said he had a X mafs are prone to fail on all models, I've had two 5s gone through 6 maf sensors hence I'll be getting rid on my 8 as I'm fed up of replacing them

One has ever said he has a x, it's you that's bringing x into the convo, I don't even class the x as an evo just a glorified proton so couldn't care less about the tens lol

What I'm saying is sd is a worth while investment and I'm sure many will Agree as well

dangerousdave
21-09-2014, 14:31
Then I do apologise. I thought your explanation that rally cars and cars that are use on the track a lot might be better on SD was advice that the OP would also be better on SD. I guess my English interpretation isn't as good as I thought it was and there is actually some unrelated reason you posted on this thread the things that you did. Still, at least we're now all clear.


Not advice at all, just my experience. I also never said anything about rally cars running SD, I only asked the question which you don't seem to have answered?

Also you don't know the circumstances of my car, its is by no means a dedicated track car but a road car that gets used on track. It is used all year round whatever the weather doing around 10k miles a year, roughly speaking 1000 of those will be on track so around 90% of the time it is used on the road and drives the same as if not better than when it was mapped on the MAF. If asked my opinion on whether people should do the conversion, then from my experience I would say yes go for it but I wouldn't tell them that they absolutely have to as some people can't justify the extra cost and if the car isn't modified a great deal then the money saved could be better spent elsewhere.

dobzevo6
21-09-2014, 16:33
Some very interesting comments from everyone, thanks. My car is a stock e6. Im currently buying the bits and prices needed for its stage 1 tune, so the power as I'm told will be around 350-380bhp with similar torque figures. It does less than 4k miles a year and hasn't been used in a track as yet but probs will at some point for some fun, so 99% road car really.

will2
21-09-2014, 22:22
*you're anNaughty :mhihi:

egg in aidy's face? :lol:Yellow yoke? He likes Yellow ...so invalid :D......

jaievo6
22-09-2014, 07:08
First off, that's wrong. The X has both MAF and MAP and uses a combo of both to work out air flow, as in some situations MAP is better than MAF and vice versa. However the tables can be manipulated to ensure one or the other is used so you could certainly tune it to use SD at high revs, but it doesn't come like that out of the box. In standard trim the car still uses the MAF to ensure engine safety. I'm quite sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

Second off, your comment doesn't really have any relevance to the thread which is about if converting a non-SD car to SD is worth the money and the pros and cons of that situation. Sad to see a mod deliberately trolling.


Maybe we should just all come to you for a remap and cut out all traders as you clearly seem to know everything.

How can you tell a guy who maps SD he is wrong??? :confused:

Aidy
22-09-2014, 07:51
Maybe we should just all come to you for a remap

Maybe you should? My remaps are free as I have no overheads and my work comes with no legal backup or protection, and they take money from proper traders' pockets too but that's ok. :)

*unsubscribes another ruined thread*

shavermcspud
08-10-2014, 20:58
:mhihi:Sometimes Aidy you are a real bellend and have been that way since I joined in 2009, you little keyboard warrior you

burgers22
20-10-2014, 22:39
:mhihi:Sometimes Aidy you are a real bellend and have been that way since I joined in 2009, you little keyboard warrior you

He was that way before you joined as well......

mantazini
21-10-2014, 23:48
Literally in tears , another epic thread :smoker:

will2
24-10-2014, 22:20
:mhihi:Sometimes Aidy you are a real bellend More oft he is more worthy than most , counting rivets/bolts can become tad dull without living a LIFE beyond THE EVO :eek:...Shocked at myself , must spank myself with a cat o 9 tails asap :D......( runs off to hug silver VII :mhihi:)

heaveho
02-11-2014, 20:10
More oft he is more worthy than most

Will, he really isn't, you need to raise your sights as far as the heroes in your life are concerned.

I was an SD sceptic, been running it for 3 years now, smoother on/off throttle response, maf deleted, so one less thing to be arsed about, and no apparent downsides.

People talk crap on here sometimes. Why do they still get airtime?

todd-w
02-11-2014, 20:11
Will, he really isn't, you need to raise your sights as far as the heroes in your life are concerned.

People talk crap on here sometimes. Why do they still get airtime?


Amen reverend :D

kim
02-11-2014, 20:49
ive got and stuck with my maf sensor and im running 500+

i dont see why i should go sd over maf... and my maf touch wood has been good as gold..... had to clean it as there was oil build up but that was another issue... :)

heaveho
02-11-2014, 21:09
Amen reverend :D

Three hail Mary's for you fella, my previous post will be regarded as a cardinal sin on here!

Fortunately, I don't care!

todd-w
02-11-2014, 21:57
Three hail Mary's for you fella, my previous post will be regarded as a cardinal sin on here!

Fortunately, I don't care!

we may repent at leisure so :crackup::crackup:

heaveho
02-11-2014, 22:07
we may repent at leisure so :crackup::crackup:

:D Yes, I believe that would be ok!

will2
02-11-2014, 22:57
Will, he really isn't, you need to raise your sights as far as the heroes in your life are concerned.

I was an SD sceptic, been running it for 3 years now, smoother on/off throttle response, maf deleted, so one less thing to be arsed about, and no apparent downsides.

People talk crap on here sometimes. Why do they still get airtime?Must say that on my old PFC I ran smoother compared to back again on MAF ...but I made my choice , I will suffer the consequences :lol:( good ones overall ;))
Heroes ? Well lets not get carried away ..yet I do like those who add colour to life ...enough grey types around
;)...
Amen reverend :D You are banned from church service last time I checked :crackup: