E85 [Archive] - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum

E85

23-09-2009, 07:45
Has anyone starting using this yet, I have been having a read up on it and although there are power gains to be had, there are quite a few pitfalls.

To run safely you need to massively upgrade the fuel system as E85 uses considerably more fuel so where OEM injectors would have been fine 1000cc or bigger will be required.

Does anyone know if the fuel system on the Evo (Rubbers, Lines etc) will degrade in the presence of E85 or the use of an inhibitor be enough?

Thought I would open up the debate as E85 fuel is becoming a little more widespread now :)

evonut270
23-09-2009, 08:20
i know some of the irish lads are using E-85 but to what extent iv no idea.your probably better having a look at evolutionm.net as it seems to be used alot over the pond. i think some people were having issues with deposit build up on the injector nozzles.

technoprisoners
23-09-2009, 08:26
have a chat with xpro about this stuff....he was running his track car on e5 but the garage mixed the tanks up and he ended up filling the car with e85 by accident. i know every petrol station in ireland was dug up and had new tanks put in over the last few years in preperation for this

Ant_evo
23-09-2009, 08:26
Yeah my mate haydn is running it in his evo8 (white with lime green bits, always up castle combe and built by Norris) runs well on it and got a big increase in power.
He has had to upgrade his injectors twice now and had to stick on a bosch fuel pump off the top of my head he's now using 1200cc injectors as he just stuck a gt30 on and upped his power again.
He still has standard fuel lines throughout although is upgrading at some point.
Been told by another friend of mine who is a tuner that you cannot leave the fuel in the lines for a long period of time as it will rot it out.

technoprisoners
23-09-2009, 08:27
also TDP said they have to use a lube with this fuel

GSRed
23-09-2009, 09:34
also TDP said they have to use a lube with this fuel

Not the only thing they use lube for!:D:D;)

cossie1
23-09-2009, 09:37
Has anyone starting using this yet, I have been having a read up on it and although there are power gains to be had, there are quite a few pitfalls.

To run safely you need to massively upgrade the fuel system as E85 uses considerably more fuel so where OEM injectors would have been fine 1000cc or bigger will be required.

Does anyone know if the fuel system on the Evo (Rubbers, Lines etc) will degrade in the presence of E85 or the use of an inhibitor be enough?

Thought I would open up the debate as E85 fuel is becoming a little more widespread now :)

I heard it's fine to use in all Evo's except the X mate ;) :mhihi:

youngsyp
23-09-2009, 09:40
I believe AndyF uses it, maybe even exclusively...

Paul

Norris Designs
23-09-2009, 11:57
I have run E85 on both the E3 and E9 for over a year now mate. Great stuff!

Cheers

Si

23-09-2009, 12:18
I have run E85 on both the E3 and E9 for over a year now mate. Great stuff!

Cheers

Si

They both on custom fuel systems? Have you found any issues that you don't mind sharing?

Johnny G
23-09-2009, 12:26
This old chestnut....

Long story short is yes you can run it. Long version is that you should cahnge all the fuel lines, pump, injectors, tank and fuel filters to be sure. Due to the properties of the fuel it removes deposits from other fuel from along the fuel system eg the tank and this can clog filters etc. Also the rubber hoses will perish so will need to be uprated. In saying that some cars (volvos, saabs and some fords off the top of my head) can run e85 from new ...ie straight from the factory ...but if alternative fuel such as standard pump fuel has been run in the cra prior to e85 it would be really advisable to clean the system out.

A remap is a must and as mentioned above possibly larger injectors. TDI (Torque Developments International) north have a bit of experience with this on a customers car it is a silver classic scoob that is run in time attack. There was a write up about the progression of the car and conversion to e85 in banzai or Japanese performance, quite an interesting article if you can get your hands on it or better still get in touch with tdi north.

leecavturbo
23-09-2009, 15:22
that white evo with the green bits was flying round combe on the last vid i saw. was even chasing si at one point

leecavturbo
23-09-2009, 15:24
massively used in the states ant.
altho we don't like there figures its worth a look to find out what rubber bits won't stand up to the job from them

Barrie
23-09-2009, 16:58
im on it the reason for 1600cc injecters

Oracle
23-09-2009, 17:35
cold start is a pain.

There are other things you can do in order to avoid running huge huge injectors.

Barrie
23-09-2009, 17:53
This is what a lot say but Believe it or not mine has never been so good to start on it , i know it seems wierd but its true.Right from the start without changing the start map , its been perfect and the car runs so cleaner

Unobtainium
23-09-2009, 18:07
im on it the reason for 1600cc injecters

Hi Barrie,
Have you taken your car for a spin on track yet?

How does it feel compared to last year's spec?

Must be nippy:smthumbup

Barrie
23-09-2009, 18:41
only up the road but it's similar set up to last year just a few more improvements here and their and a lot quicker, shes for sale , but if it doesnt sell for the money i want i will do a full season again in it next year , ive wrote this one off now

todd-w
23-09-2009, 18:55
no cold start or other issues of any kind with 1000 inj been running on it for some time .

Norris Designs
23-09-2009, 19:08
I believe all the fuel line, injector issues deposit to be hearsay Ant, I have run it for 1 year plus now and had zero side effects at all. It burns so clean as well, it meaning oil changes are less regular, plugs never foul and last a whole season amongst other things.

AWESOME stuff! The only issue really is you need to deliver between 30-35% more of it to the engine when compared to SUL. It gives the same power as full race fuel for 1 a litre though......can't beat that really!

Cheers

Si

leecavturbo
23-09-2009, 19:22
you use supermarket stuff too don't you Si with no issue?
so its easily and locally gettable

Norris Designs
23-09-2009, 19:36
Yep I sure do, from Morrisions. Not that close for me but I get 10 x 20 litres at a time to make the journey less regular.

will2
23-09-2009, 19:49
supposed 2 be 104 ish ron :eek::naughty:,little 2 sparse in local redkneck stations 2 pursue :shake:

cossie1
23-09-2009, 19:51
Shame it isn't avaliable everywhere yet.

23-09-2009, 20:05
I believe all the fuel line, injector issues deposit to be hearsay Ant, I have run it for 1 year plus now and had zero side effects at all. It burns so clean as well, it meaning oil changes are less regular, plugs never foul and last a whole season amongst other things.

AWESOME stuff! The only issue really is you need to deliver between 30-35% more of it to the engine when compared to SUL. It gives the same power as full race fuel for 1 a litre though......can't beat that really!

Cheers

Si

Excellent stuff :) I looked ata cylinder and piston crown that had been running E85 and they looked like a new engine that had ben run for 10 mins.

todd-w
23-09-2009, 20:15
supposed 2 be 104 ish ron :eek::naughty:,little 2 sparse in local redkneck stations 2 pursue :shake:

they seem to have left out the west m8 readily available here

HEL Performance
23-09-2009, 20:35
I can give some feedback on the hose issue, which in short is that if you run PROPER fuel hose, ie decent quality stuff, it'll not perish at all with E85 as Si @ ND has already noted.

All certified hose like Gates and Aeroquip for example is fine.

Best stuff above all that is ptfe lined hose over rubber, convoluted or smooth bore.

However that brings with it the need to use specialist fittings only suitable for that type of hose meaning the normal red/blue reusable fittings are useless.

Aeroquip and others are all graded in 4 catagories of suitability for use with different fuels, and for E85 its considered 'good'. PTFE hose is considered 'excellent'.

We've supplied it to 2-3 TA competitors this year and they've had no problems all year with it at all.

Hope this helps.

23-09-2009, 20:37
I can give some feedback on the hose issue, which in short is that if you run PROPER fuel hose, ie decent quality stuff, it'll not perish at all with E85 as Si @ ND has already noted.

All certified hose like Gates and Aeroquip for example is fine.

Best stuff above all that is ptfe lined hose over rubber, convoluted or smooth bore.

However that brings with it the need to use specialist fittings only suitable for that type of hose meaning the normal red/blue reusable fittings are useless.

Aeroquip and others are all graded in 4 catagories of suitability for use with different fuels, and for E85 its considered 'good'. PTFE hose is considered 'excellent'.

We've supplied it to 2-3 TA competitors this year and they've had no problems all year with it at all.

Hope this helps.
My cogs are turning speak to you Friday :D

E5_DCB
23-09-2009, 20:58
Shame it isn't avaliable everywhere yet.

Sure it will be up Lansdown there installing all new Tanks.:smthumbup

cossie1
23-09-2009, 21:00
Sure it will be up Lansdown there installing all new Tanks.:smthumbup
:coolsm:

The only real worry is, if you map the car to run on E85 and have everything setup for it, and then endup somewhere where you can't get E85, your kinda screwed :(

leecavturbo
23-09-2009, 21:08
:coolsm:

The only real worry is, if you map the car to run on E85 and have everything setup for it, and then endup somewhere where you can't get E85, your kinda screwed :(

most of us have multi maps including after market dudes surely

todd-w
23-09-2009, 21:23
:coolsm:

The only real worry is, if you map the car to run on E85 and have everything setup for it, and then endup somewhere where you can't get E85, your kinda screwed :(

re flash on 1 table then push the alt map button :D

cossie1
23-09-2009, 22:07
re flash on 1 table then push the alt map button :D
Yeh I guess I could ditch the "ALS" map then :lol:

So what size injectors will I need for a 2.2 stroker and GT35R to run E85 ???

spirecracker
23-09-2009, 22:32
So could the guys in the know ie Si, Barrie etc please tell me what if any parts of my fuel system i would have to upgrade to run on E85 ? Im running a S205 on a 2.0L with a Walbro 255 and 1000cc injectors.
Also what sort of power increase would i be likely to see ?

Cheers Mark

Barrie
24-09-2009, 14:53
All you need to do is make sure enough fuel can be supplied and injecters are big enough

30%-35% more fuel is needed over normal v-power

spirecracker
24-09-2009, 16:26
All you need to do is make sure enough fuel can be supplied and injecters are big enough

30%-35% more fuel is needed over normal v-power

Cheers mate.

Oracle
24-09-2009, 17:02
a wideband is a must.

todd-w
24-09-2009, 19:25
Yeh I guess I could ditch the "ALS" map then :lol:

So what size injectors will I need for a 2.2 stroker and GT35R to run E85 ???

****ing big ones :crackup: a guy here running 1600cc bosch ones on similar set up he says they are just big enough. but he has inline bosch pump also and maye twin in-tank but not 100% certain on that.

leecavturbo
24-09-2009, 19:41
So could the guys in the know ie Si, Barrie etc please tell me what if any parts of my fuel system i would have to upgrade to run on E85 ? Im running a S205 on a 2.0L with a Walbro 255 and 1000cc injectors.
Also what sort of power increase would i be likely to see ?

Cheers Mark

mark i'd say another 40bhp at your level.
going on what gains others get with full on race fuel:smthumbup

Barrie
24-09-2009, 20:32
****ing big ones :crackup: a guy here running 1600cc bosch ones on similar set up he says they are just big enough. but he has inline bosch pump also and maye twin in-tank but not 100% certain on that.

the 1600cc injecters on e85 are fine for 760- 800hp because thats whay im running - how much more i dont know , so they will be fine on a 35 because you wont hit 800hp with one of them :smthumbup

speak to your tuner and mapper direct- that is the best and only way , and take all stuff on forums with a pinch of salt

Grant620
16-10-2009, 17:38
I believe all the fuel line, injector issues deposit to be hearsay Ant, I have run it for 1 year plus now and had zero side effects at all. It burns so clean as well, it meaning oil changes are less regular, plugs never foul and last a whole season amongst other things.

AWESOME stuff! The only issue really is you need to deliver between 30-35% more of it to the engine when compared to SUL. It gives the same power as full race fuel for 1 a litre though......can't beat that really!

Cheers

Si

Si,
Do you use Supermarket E85?
If so, do you run with an ethanol sensor?
Reason I ask is that having spoken to the manufacturer of the ECU I use, they say that:

Pump E85 you cannot use without a sensor to measure the ethanol content, it varies due to time of year and how old it is down to as low as 50% ethanol.

So this could mean that if an engine is mapped to the edge on the "best" Supermarket E85 and then later in the year you fill with the cr4p stuf... Engine melt down?

16-10-2009, 17:55
As a benchmark, RC 750cc injectors are maxed out on a stock Evo IX with stock turbo @ 1.6 bar on E85.

16-10-2009, 20:38
So could the guys in the know ie Si, Barrie etc please tell me what if any parts of my fuel system i would have to upgrade to run on E85 ? Im running a S205 on a 2.0L with a Walbro 255 and 1000cc injectors.
Also what sort of power increase would i be likely to see ?

Cheers Mark

Can't answer the E85 question Mark, but the S205 with race fuel should be good for 550+ based on the figures we got from the Subaru version yesterday.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/BonnieAmber/RaceFuel.jpg

V2AAA
16-10-2009, 20:56
.

16-10-2009, 21:28
Based on previous experience with the stock 2.5 motor I wouldn't run one without at least forged pistons. 500/500 is the intended figures when the latest incarnation is released. The turbo is called the S206 funnily enough.

spirecracker
17-10-2009, 16:22
Can't answer the E85 question Mark, but the S205 with race fuel should be good for 550+ based on the figures we got from the Subaru version yesterday.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e235/BonnieAmber/RaceFuel.jpg

Cheers for that mate.:smthumbup

17-10-2009, 19:00
No probs, am off to Shakespeare tomorrow for the last round of the PSDS, hoping for my first 10.

18-10-2009, 22:43
Ended up doing my 1st, 2nd and 3rd, lol.
10.96
10.888
10.943

GUM EVO
19-10-2009, 00:49
was that with the car from the above graph and on race fuel? Well done mate, a great result:smthumbup

Grant620
19-10-2009, 00:50
Nobody know about the Ethanol sensor then??

19-10-2009, 06:09
was that with the car from the above graph and on race fuel? Well done mate, a great result:smthumbup

Yes m8, from the same car running the same figures on the same fuel.
There is still a faster time in it, 60fts are way down in the 1.7s, just need a bit more practice to ring the best out of it.

Norris Designs
20-10-2009, 09:25
Nobody know about the Ethanol sensor then??

Some people say this is necessary but I don't beleive it is. I do not run one and have used E85 that is over 1 year old from Morrisions with zero issues. I think it may be an issue if you buy from many different suppliers across a wide area but I don't. I always buy from the same station.

I really don't understand why there is so many rumours regarding E85, maybe its pure hearsay and it gets repeated with an extra twist.............Chinese whisper central! ;)

Cheers

Si

Grant620
21-10-2009, 17:50
Interesting Si, very interesting.
What sort of gains have you seen on E85 compared to SUL?

Barrie
21-10-2009, 17:52
as much ignition as your engine can cope with ........near enough !

spirecracker
21-10-2009, 23:12
Si or Barrie could 1 of you please tell me if my 1000cc injectors will be ok to run E85 on an S205 ?

Cheers Mark

Norris Designs
22-10-2009, 09:15
Interesting Si, very interesting.
What sort of gains have you seen on E85 compared to SUL?

Its race fuel for pump fuel money mate!

Si

Norris Designs
22-10-2009, 09:16
Si or Barrie could 1 of you please tell me if my 1000cc injectors will be ok to run E85 on an S205 ?

Cheers Mark

If you have a walbro no, if you have a walbro feeding an 044 and use 65Psi base pressure then you will be fine.

Cheers

Si

spirecracker
22-10-2009, 13:49
If you have a walbro no, if you have a walbro feeding an 044 and use 65Psi base pressure then you will be fine.

Cheers

Si

Hi Si thanks mate having the Bosch and pressure reg fitted tomorrow and mapped next week.:smthumbup

Cheers Mark

22-10-2009, 21:08
Hi Si thanks mate having the Bosch and pressure reg fitted tomorrow and mapped next week.:smthumbup

Cheers Mark


Sweet, can you let me have the graphs when you are done ?

Mazanara
22-10-2009, 21:12
mg autos knows a guy who uses e85,,,runs better on that then petrol now

spirecracker
22-10-2009, 21:27
Sweet, can you let me have the graphs when you are done ?

No probs mate will do i`ll post the graphs up soon after it been done.:smthumbup

sarge
31-10-2009, 17:45
What size injectors would be needed for a GT3076?
255 in the boot feeding an 044

leecavturbo
05-12-2009, 16:57
will a walbro keep up with outputs around 440 when on e85?
but injectors will deffo need to be bigger?
thinking of running it with a std turbo for more power than buying a turbo
pros/cons?