pops-flames? [Archive] - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum

pops-flames?

trev t
16-08-2009, 07:50
unsure where to go with this now but after fitting my new "to me" engine i took the car back to my local rolling road garage for a re-map and specifically asked for the :o pops and flames to be added by the usual way of how they do it :confused:and they said laughing they would try:thumbup: However i've heard and read how different cars react with some good and some not so good results and mine doesn't seem to do either flame or pop :blah: it is a v with a vi engine and ecu, usual mods exhaust & de-cat, fuel pump, air filter ecutek re-map, .......any recomendations or any "Geekmappers" willing to have a look for me:handsup:

Phil2333
16-08-2009, 08:03
Take it to [email protected] is the king of pops and bangs:lol:

Ecutek is costly tho...there is some cheap alternatives.

grayw
16-08-2009, 08:04
If you still have the SAS fitted and it's functional you have not problem getting very load pops and bangs. If they have been setup correctly, changing from a VTA to recirc bov will help, but is not 100% necessary.

trev t
16-08-2009, 08:27
If you still have the SAS fitted and it's functional you have not problem getting very load pops and bangs. If they have been setup correctly, changing from a VTA to recirc bov will help, but is not 100% necessary.

Thanks gray, my sas is there and i believe it to be functional, it does have a loud hks vta bov though, basically i do not know what they've done but my new engine of 40k, with a NR rod conversion made 272hp @ 1.6bar:confused: maybee due to them mapping the car previously and my old engine throwing a rod they poss felt the map should be safer:confused: but this wouldn't have an effect on pops-flames would it:confused:

grayw
16-08-2009, 08:35
Should make no difference to the pops etc. However the power does seem odd considering you have forged rods. Can you post a full spec of what you have, as there maybe other limiting factors involved.

trev t
16-08-2009, 08:54
Should make no difference to the pops etc. However the power does seem odd considering you have forged rods. Can you post a full spec of what you have, as there maybe other limiting factors involved.

i'll try:o

255lph pump,
apexi air filter,
apexi Gt spec full exhaust,inc de-cat
blitz rad,
hks vta bov,
40k tommi vi eng:NR rod conversion:
Machine std pistons,
Marley H beam rods
Re-face cyl head
Cosworth head gasket
ARP head studs
re-build std head, new seals-re-grind valves etc,
all new belts and oils.
exeedy twin plate clutch,
Denso iw 24 plugs
splitfire leads.
Blitz Spec-s boost controller.

standard turbo ,intrecooler, pipework etc..
:confused:

JimBFC
16-08-2009, 08:57
is the 272hp atw or atf?

grayw
16-08-2009, 08:58
Was the power you were quoting wheel or flywheel? If's it wheel, it not that bad to be honest.

trev t
16-08-2009, 09:12
272 whp. Dyno dynamics rr.

grayw
16-08-2009, 09:16
Figures are around correct, with the forged rods there is scope for more boost and improved torque.

jason4656
16-08-2009, 10:04
did you put the tommi turbo on it? or the v turbo? if its the v turbo then its about right, with what you have you could fit an 80 series turbo or even better and push the limits 300-320 atw should be fine with a rod conversion and even more :)

trev t
16-08-2009, 10:27
did you put the tommi turbo on it? or the v turbo? if its the v turbo then its about right, with what you have you could fit an 80 series turbo or even better and push the limits 300-320 atw should be fine with a rod conversion and even more :)

Hopefully the 9 tubby will be next:naughty:, however its not been cheap sorting the last problem:eek:, as usual champagne lifestyle on now shandy income:cry:

sponners
16-08-2009, 13:10
providing they have done all the correct setting for the pops and bangs then I'd have a look at the sas valve itself,
wip it off and check the valve itself isn't seized (doesn't take long)

Evo6er
16-08-2009, 13:18
Ive had pops and bangs added to my standard 6 ECU and ive only got a 3" catback with 5 inch slash but still with standard cat and they are very loud and impressive.. i also drilled my SAS bolts to 6mm and im sure that makes a big difference :)

EDIT: i also have a re-circ and when i turned it around to make the whoosh noise the pops and bangs were pretty pathetic in comparison to when it recircs

wip
16-08-2009, 13:22
Ive had pops and bangs added to my standard 6 ECU and ive only got a 3" catback with 5 inch slash but still with standard cat and they are very loud and impressive.. i also drilled my SAS bolts to 6mm and im sure that makes a big difference :)

EDIT: i also have a re-circ and when i turned it around to make the whoosh noise the pops and bangs were pretty pathetic in comparison to when it recircs

:eek:

Evo6er
16-08-2009, 13:26
:eek:

I dont plan on keeping it :lol: but youd be surprised at how aggressive they are considering the restriction ;)

grayw
16-08-2009, 16:16
They either blow the core out (as I have done twice) or block the exhaust if you are unlucky:(

freefly
16-08-2009, 17:52
Removed the negative timing from my map recently after having it on for about 300miles. Good for a laugh but definatley wouldn't leave it on, makes the car run awful on overrun (obviously!) just makes it awkward to drive.

grayw
16-08-2009, 17:54
Removed the negative timing from my map recently after having it on for about 300miles. Good for a laugh but definatley wouldn't leave it on, makes the car overrun horribly (obviously) just makes it awkward to drive.

If you use the dual maps you can switch it on/off at will.

freefly
16-08-2009, 17:55
If you use the dual maps you can switch it on/off at will.

have you stopped running it Gray?

grayw
16-08-2009, 18:01
I don't run it on mine after the loss of two sport CAT's. The effects on a car that has SAS fitted it much more aggressive.

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 18:09
mine bangs and cracks well, but not when changing gear at redline.

why is this??? air injection is 2.5 across the board, should that be reduced at higher rpm to bang/crack high revs

Ryan!!
16-08-2009, 18:19
Nice to see it's running well trev,standard cams and turbo is 260-280atw so in the right field.Boost is at a nice safe level.

JimBFC
16-08-2009, 18:25
mine bangs and cracks well, but not when changing gear at redline.

why is this??? air injection is 2.5 across the board, should that be reduced at higher rpm to bang/crack high revs


why change hear at the red line anyway? Most cars unless big turbo'd and rev limit changed have run out of puff long before the holy grail redline...like flogging a dead horse...

stedee
16-08-2009, 18:28
matt at trl did mine , i ve never had so much fun with my foot off the loud pedal, sounds awesome especially through a tunnel or under a bridge

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 18:34
why change hear at the red line anyway? Most cars unless big turbo'd and rev limit changed have run out of puff long before the holy grail redline...like flogging a dead horse...

peak load holds pretty much to redline, what settings do you recomend then?

JimBFC
16-08-2009, 18:47
peak load holds pretty much to redline, what settings do you recomend then?


Im not talking about pops and bangs, im talking about why people seem to rev car to rev limiter when there is not much power past 6k rpm on a stock turbo.

But it was off topic, so apologise lol.

Phil2333
16-08-2009, 18:48
[QUOTE=JimBFC;2873670]Im not talking about pops and bangs, im talking about why people seem to rev car to rev limiter when there is not much power past 6k rpm on a stock turbo.


Cos some people use the rev limiter as a shift light:shake::lol::lol:

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 18:58
ok, thanks for the help lads:smthumbup

what settings should I try higher up the air injection? as it does not pop/bang at anything over 5500rpm ;):thumbup:

grayw
16-08-2009, 19:02
Lower the air injsection times to around 1.2 in the midrange. Also do you have all the other parameters setup?

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 19:08
Lower the air injsection times to around 1.2 in the midrange. Also do you have all the other parameters setup?

thanks for help Grayw
why lower the values midrange? it bangs well there.
Ifound 2.5 to give the best crack on gear change. all other parameters are fine.

Evo6er
16-08-2009, 19:10
Im not talking about pops and bangs, im talking about why people seem to rev car to rev limiter when there is not much power past 6k rpm on a stock turbo.

But it was off topic, so apologise lol.

Mine on a standard blower showed it was pulling near enough to the line on the RR :handsup:

grayw
16-08-2009, 19:20
thanks for help Grayw
why lower the values midrange? it bangs well there.
Ifound 2.5 to give the best crack on gear change. all other parameters are fine.

Never needed anything over 1.9 for very loud setup, or 0.9 for mild. You can get stuttering and hesitation at light throttle load if the times are too high.

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 19:28
Never needed anything over 1.9 for very loud setup, or 0.9 for mild. You can get stuttering and hesitation at light throttle load if the times are too high.

no hesitation issues,

what I want to know is (in a perfect world - held boost etc) how do the injection times relate to rpm? to create the same bangs throughout the rev range?

my times are 2.5 all the way, but doesnt bang over 5500rpm do I try more or less air injection at these rpm's?

(car is evo6) thanks

grayw
16-08-2009, 19:31
It's related to boost pressure, are you running a dual port bov?

Phil2333
16-08-2009, 19:33
Never needed anything over 1.9 for very loud setup, or 0.9 for mild. You can get stuttering and hesitation at light throttle load if the times are too high.

;):D

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 19:45
It's related to boost pressure, are you running a dual port bov?

boost drops from 1.5 to about 1.4 at redline (not that I go to redline :lol:)

running a recirsc dump valve.

grayw
16-08-2009, 19:48
Try the ones posted here (https://www.lancerregister.com/showpost.php?p=2221134&postcount=44).

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 19:51
ok will give them a try and let you know how i geton.
cant see them being as good as it is now but will try them
thanks

grayw
16-08-2009, 19:59
Do you have negitive timing in the low load cels 0-30 from 2500 to 7000 rpm?

spilioholio
16-08-2009, 20:03
yes mate, running -10

Evo3boy
16-08-2009, 20:17
sorry to jump in your thread....but my evo popped and banged alot at every given chance it had, but since my rebuild and the fitting of Hks 264 cams, it doesnt pop and bang at all on over run just when you accellerate hard and change gear...then it bangs lol....anyone know why the cams wouldve effected my pops??

Cheers

grayw
16-08-2009, 20:18
Have a read Clicky (http://www.geekmapped.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147).

grayw
16-08-2009, 20:20
sorry to jump in your thread....but my evo popped and banged alot at every given chance it had, but since my rebuild and the fitting of Hks 264 cams, it doesnt pop and bang at all on over run just when you accellerate hard and change gear...then it bangs lol....anyone know why the cams wouldve effected my pops??

Cheers


The map/settings will need some small adjustments, pop over and see Lee:)

trev t
17-08-2009, 06:27
Thanks for the replies, I'll check the sas and failing that wait until someone else can have a look for me :smthumbup

spilioholio
17-08-2009, 11:08
Try the ones posted here (https://www.lancerregister.com/showpost.php?p=2221134&postcount=44).

tried these settings last night and as I thought they we really mild effect.

gone back upto 2.7's tailing a little up top

cracking loud again just not higher inthe revs :wallbang:

Evo6er
17-08-2009, 11:15
tried these settings last night and as I thought they we really mild effect.

gone back upto 2.7's tailing a little up top

cracking loud again just not higher inthe revs :wallbang:

Not teaching you to suck eggs but do you accelerate hard for say 3secs into the high revs then change gear? have you tried going into the high revs then just lifting off different ways?

When i accelerate hard and change gear sometimes it doesnt crack but when i just lift off it always bangs and cracks

Just a thought :handsup:

grayw
17-08-2009, 11:22
tried these settings last night and as I thought they we really mild effect.

gone back upto 2.7's tailing a little up top

cracking loud again just not higher inthe revs :wallbang:


What do you have the load below which active set to?

Caveo
17-08-2009, 11:24
Seeing as my 260 has no SAS how loud can pops & bangs be with the std tubby and 3" decat system and say some 272 cams ??

grayw
17-08-2009, 11:47
You can get them, but you need to add a lot of negative timing to get any effect, making light throttle positions unsmooth.

Caveo
17-08-2009, 11:48
Hence the ability to switch it off then , cheers

grayw
17-08-2009, 11:53
Hence the ability to switch it off then , cheers

Yes the switching on the 260 is really necessary, you would get fed up of low speed driving otherwise.

spilioholio
17-08-2009, 12:49
Not teaching you to suck eggs but do you accelerate hard for say 3secs into the high revs then change gear? have you tried going into the high revs then just lifting off different ways?

When i accelerate hard and change gear sometimes it doesnt crack but when i just lift off it always bangs and cracks

Just a thought :handsup:

no mate, makes no difference if I let off or change gear in high revs.
cracks with every gear change if I short shift.

What do you have the load below which active set to?

it was on 45, and also tried 75 last night.

grayw
17-08-2009, 16:23
yes mate, running -10

Change the timing taper as in the link I posted.

spilioholio
17-08-2009, 16:36
Change the timing taper as in the link I posted.

what difference does the timing taper make? I'm hitting -10 in those parts of the map. and I believe you cant run any lower than this anyway?


what is the deal with the fuel injection? ie duty, time etc???


thanks grayw

grayw
17-08-2009, 16:39
You can't run -24, but it works better with those values in there for some reason.

spilioholio
17-08-2009, 17:03
at the end of the day though the engine is actually hitting -10 in those areas.

bangs work lower in the revs (hitting -10)
bangs dont work higher in the revs (still hitting -10)
so this cant be the issue.

can you please explain what is happening when for instance I have 10 in the fuel injection section?

grayw
17-08-2009, 18:06
Post up the settings you are using would help. I don't know why ignition values below -10 work, but they do provide a better effect.

spilioholio
17-08-2009, 18:35
dont know how to post settings up, not typing them all out:lol:

what does the fuel injection setting actually do???

grayw
17-08-2009, 19:51
What is the name of the setting you want to know, fuel injector time, delay before injection?

spilioholio
18-08-2009, 11:12
how does the fuel injector time work? what duty?

grayw
18-08-2009, 11:21
Should leave at the default value, of 4.8, try setting to 0 and see what happens.

spilioholio
18-08-2009, 11:49
cheers Grayw

is this actually seconds? as there is not going to be any difference on lift of and especially gear changes between 2 second and 10 seconds (your back on the gas before time runs out)

what percent duty are the injectors firing at?


will try it at 0 for interest

grayw
18-08-2009, 11:58
Not sure on the units, the xml's are not always correct, might be m/s.

sponners
18-08-2009, 12:02
I always wondered about the timing on that.