help! best advice prior 2 ecutek [Archive] - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum

help! best advice prior 2 ecutek

stig
08-10-2007, 12:27
i,m going for a remap -ecutek next week and i,m baffled ! :confused: :confused:

do i need to change spark plugs??????????

1.) a ralliart dealer said my current plugs r gud for 45k miles!
- my car has covered 14k and its a mr320!

2.)a tuner recommends hks plugs 4 a bigger spark which aids tuning potential?

3.)i spoke to mits rally team at rally show and they said def not hks stick with ngk as they av trashed engines on hks!!!

what plugs do you run if u av ecutek on evo 8 mr 320?

thanks stig

bloke101
08-10-2007, 13:11
Originally posted by stig
i,m going for a remap -ecutek next week and i,m baffled ! :confused: :confused:

do i need to change spark plugs??????????

1.) a ralliart dealer said my current plugs r gud for 45k miles!
- my car has covered 14k and its a mr320!

2.)a tuner recommends hks plugs 4 a bigger spark which aids tuning potential?

3.)i spoke to mits rally team at rally show and they said def not hks stick with ngk as they av trashed engines on hks!!!

what plugs do you run if u av ecutek on evo 8 mr 320?

thanks stig

Change them before, as well as the oil/filter.

check coolant and tyre pressure before also.

Then change the oil after 20 30 miles of hard driving afterwards.

Also change air filter before.

:cool:

good luck.

Fastedd
08-10-2007, 13:28
Stig,

You don't need to change them, but huss @ performance parts does a set of the higher temp ( BR8EIX's) for 28. I have ran with these plugs @ 24 psi peak boost for over 10,000 miles without any problems.

Bloke101,

Why would you change the oil / filter after a remap ????


Originally posted by stig
i,m going for a remap -ecutek next week and i,m baffled ! :confused: :confused:

do i need to change spark plugs??????????

1.) a ralliart dealer said my current plugs r gud for 45k miles!
- my car has covered 14k and its a mr320!

2.)a tuner recommends hks plugs 4 a bigger spark which aids tuning potential?

3.)i spoke to mits rally team at rally show and they said def not hks stick with ngk as they av trashed engines on hks!!!

what plugs do you run if u av ecutek on evo 8 mr 320?

thanks stig

cossie1
08-10-2007, 13:30
Originally posted by bloke101


Then change the oil after 20 30 miles of hard driving afterwards.


Why would you change the oil so soon after ?

Can't see any mappers letting the fueling getting so rich as to contaminate the oil :confused:

bloke101
08-10-2007, 13:52
Your running your car while mapping and after at levels it has not run at before.

All manner of places drop crap/metal flakes into the oil.

Any decent tuner will reccomend you do the same.


regards.

Filter before, not after, just personal preference, if your laying out for a map, 30 to make sure the airflow is at its peak makes sence to me.

bloke101
08-10-2007, 13:57
Originally posted by cossie1
Why would you change the oil so soon after ?

Can't see any mappers letting the fueling getting so rich as to contaminate the oil :confused:

Nothing to do with fuel.

And fuel will only contaminate the oil if you rings are knackered.

Which on older evos can be a problem when raising boost.

Also your car running rich has nothing to do with the oil.

:)

Its purly to cleanse the engine from contaminating objects that have gotten into the oil during mapping and new levels of boost, revs, running.

cossie1
08-10-2007, 14:03
Never heard of that 1 before.

And tbh with you, I really can't see the point.

I get what your saying about the car running in a level it hasn't before. But evo's are "supposed" to have a regular oil change anyway, and those bits of crap can get into the oil at any time, not just during the mapping session.

Johnny G
08-10-2007, 14:09
Fuel pump?? I would imagine it would be advisable to replace the fuel pump ..most people use a walbro (in older evos anyway) before a remap.

bloke101
08-10-2007, 14:10
Originally posted by cossie1
Never heard of that 1 before.

And tbh with you, I really can't see the point.

I get what your saying about the car running in a level it hasn't before. But evo's are "supposed" to have a regular oil change anyway, and those bits of crap can get into the oil at any time, not just during the mapping session.

Any engine is supposed to have reg oil changes. Especially turbo engines, double espech high performing turbo's.

Take off your sump plug after mapping, the inside end is magnetic to pick up metal contaminates. Bet it looks like a headgehog. :eek:

All that crap is running through your main bearings which have a clearance of thousanths of an inch.

See if you think its not worth it then.

;)

bloke101
08-10-2007, 14:11
Originally posted by Johnny G
Fuel pump?? I would imagine it would be advisable to replace the fuel pump ..most people use a walbro (in older evos anyway) before a remap.

normal oem pump is good for about 360bhp.

cossie1
08-10-2007, 14:12
Originally posted by bloke101
Any engine is supposed to have reg oil changes. Especially turbo engines, double espech high performing turbo's.

Take off your sump plug after mapping, the inside end is magnetic to pick up metal contaminates. Bet it looks like a headgehog. :eek:

All that crap is running through your main bearings which have a clearance of thousanths of an inch.

See if you think its not worth it then.

;)

I will take your word for it, I have never had a car mapped, but I have increased engine power on cars myself over the years (including 3 evo's) and when I have come to do an oil change i've never had the crap on the end of my sump plug.

Anyway I wasn't disagreeing with you as such, just wondered why you would suggest that, as i'd never heard it before.

stig
08-10-2007, 14:17
Originally posted by Johnny G
Fuel pump?? I would imagine it would be advisable to replace the fuel pump ..most people use a walbro (in older evos anyway) before a remap.

yer everything else in place- recentley had fuel pump .

3" exhaust

new hks filter

13500 service done 1 month ago

just these plugs????? :confused:

bloke101
08-10-2007, 14:18
Originally posted by cossie1
I will take your word for it, I have never had a car mapped, but I have increased engine power on cars myself over the years (including 3 evo's) and when I have come to do an oil change i've never had the crap on the end of my sump plug.

Anyway I wasn't disagreeing with you as such, just wondered why you would suggest that, as i'd never heard it before.

Sorry that sounded a bit arsy in my last, was not meant to be.

:D

Ask any tuner/mapper about the oil, they will confirm.

And enjoy the remap. :cool:

Fastedd
08-10-2007, 14:19
Who the hell mapped your car ? I certainly didn't see any excess contaminates when I changed my oil / filter at a later date.
Originally posted by bloke101
Any engine is supposed to have reg oil changes. Especially turbo engines, double espech high performing turbo's.

Take off your sump plug after mapping, the inside end is magnetic to pick up metal contaminates. Bet it looks like a headgehog. :eek:

All that crap is running through your main bearings which have a clearance of thousanths of an inch.

See if you think its not worth it then.

;)

cossie1
08-10-2007, 14:21
lol

I didn't read it as arsey, but now you mentioned it, your right it could be read that way.

Anyway, nice advice (and learn something new everyday).

Time to get back on topic ;)

The NGK's Huss is selling work great for me, there cheaper than HKS (or denso's who make the HKS plugs), so i'd go for them.

Platinum plugs were designed to last 40 - 50k from memory, however I can't imagine they would last that long giving max performance in a high performance engine.

stig
08-10-2007, 14:30
fast edd

are the br8ei,x,s ngk plugs from huss

bloke101
08-10-2007, 14:30
Originally posted by Fastedd
Who the hell mapped your car ? I certainly didn't see any excess contaminates when I changed my oil / filter at a later date.

Sam did.

And whats your point?

If you dont want to change your oil after a remap, fine.

Im just saying it is much wiser to do than not.




For the sake of 5lts of oil and an oil filter, it makes sence.

Same as trackdays, change the oil after.

cossie1
08-10-2007, 14:32
Originally posted by stig
fast edd

are the br8ei,x,s ngk plugs from huss

Yes they are

28 inc delivery iirc

stig
08-10-2007, 15:27
cheers mate ;)

Fastedd
08-10-2007, 15:35
My point is, you said remapping caused you these issues below.

<Take off your sump plug after mapping, the inside end is magnetic to pick up metal contaminates. Bet it looks like a headgehog >.

I think you may have had engine wear before your remap, a remap should not cause what you have described above.



Originally posted by bloke101
Sam did.

And whats your point?

If you dont want to change your oil after a remap, fine.

Im just saying it is much wiser to do than not.




For the sake of 5lts of oil and an oil filter, it makes sence.

Same as trackdays, change the oil after.

andy i
08-10-2007, 19:39
should be ok with the standard plugs for a while yet, I had a remap done with standard plugs in and got 70 whp more and ran for ages with no probs, only upgraded at service interval, not hks mind ;)

bloke101
08-10-2007, 20:41
Originally posted by Fastedd
My point is, you said remapping caused you these issues below.

<Take off your sump plug after mapping, the inside end is magnetic to pick up metal contaminates. Bet it looks like a headgehog >.

I think you may have had engine wear before your remap, a remap should not cause what you have described above.

Ok, sorry it did not look like a headghog.

I was generalising.

Nothing is the cause of anything technically in an engine, its a string of cause and related effects accross many interrelated systems over a period of time.

If you dont change your oil after a remap, you will do it more harm in the long run than good.

better?

Angus Martin
08-10-2007, 21:18
I'm getting mine done at the end of the month aswell. Its Ralli Art that are doing it as the car is still under warranty. I've got ind kit and de-cat fitted and when it goes in its getting a walbro and ARP bottomend bolt kit fitted. Sam the Dentist doing the mapping. The bolts were recommended to stop the shells spinning in the caps after the extra power. I thought standard bottomend was good for about 400bhp?

300bhpCupra
08-10-2007, 21:24
Originally posted by Angus Martin
I'm getting mine done at the end of the month aswell. Its Ralli Art that are doing it as the car is still under warranty. I've got ind kit and de-cat fitted and when it goes in its getting a walbro and ARP bottomend bolt kit fitted. Sam the Dentist doing the mapping. The bolts were recommended to stop the shells spinning in the caps after the extra power. I thought standard bottomend was good for about 400bhp?

It can easily handle 400bhp, but conrod bolts are a cheap way to be more secure about the whole thing. Would deff do it.

Pockets
08-10-2007, 21:31
hi mark, i ran densos, had no problems, huss does the best prices i've seen..........i personally would change the plugs...just my preference.........nice to know in your mind that they ARE gonna be fine for ages....just my 2p worth :D

Angus Martin
08-10-2007, 21:32
Originally posted by 300bhpCupra
It can easily handle 400bhp, but conrod bolts are a cheap way to be more secure about the whole thing. Would deff do it.

Yeah absolutely. Don't mind spending that bit extra to strenghen it, will give me peace of mind that everything is solid enough.

KNOXVILLE
08-10-2007, 21:38
Originally posted by bloke101
Change them before, as well as the oil/filter.

check coolant and tyre pressure before also.

Then change the oil after 20 30 miles of hard driving afterwards.

Also change air filter before.

:cool:

good luck.

PMSL. You sell oil and filters right?

Most of your advice is ****e mate :D

amazingjames
08-10-2007, 21:43
Well said mate..Why would a remap make the oil so dirty after 20 or 30 miles??. all you do is up the boost and fiddle with the fuel slightly to level it out..It should cause no more harm than before the map.An engine drven at 4000 revs at 0.8 bar of boost and an engine driven at 4000 rpm at 1.4 bar of boost is going to cause no more engine wear than each other..The moving bits are still moving at the same speed they just get there a fraction quicker thats all.Really no need to change the oil 20 or 30 miles later whatsoever..Just stick to the service schedule..Might be worth changing the oil before the remap but only so you have nice clean new fresh oil in and engines like nice clean fresh new oil...

Chris J
08-10-2007, 21:44
Originally posted by KNOXVILLE
PMSL. You sell oil and filters right?

Most of your advice is ****e mate :D
:eek: :crackup:

amazingjames
08-10-2007, 21:45
But it is a good idea to make sure everything is running sweat first and there are no leaks and everything is working fine like the fan etc..Just to be safe thats all as the engine wilol be on a dyno and there not very forgiving and it gets hot on them..

amazingjames
08-10-2007, 21:46
And make sure you have the fuel in it that your going to use normaly and plenty of it..

cossie1
08-10-2007, 21:51
Have to say, just spoke to a mate of mine, that maps engines for a living.

I won't use the exact words he said, but he did confirm that oil does not, and will not need changing after 20 - 30 miles of a mapping session.

bloke101
08-10-2007, 21:56
No, i dont sell oils or filters.

I do have a degree in mechanical engineering though.

And im an independant vehicle tech.

make up your own mind who to take advice from.

KNOXVILLE
08-10-2007, 22:00
You got a degree, wow!!

Back street garage, wow!!

Ask any of the proper tuners what they'd do ;)

bloke101
08-10-2007, 22:00
Originally posted by cossie1
Have to say, just spoke to a mate of mine, that maps engines for a living.

I won't use the exact words he said, but he did confirm that oil does not, and will not need changing after 20 - 30 miles of a mapping session.

i said 20 30 miles after a mapping session.

This is after 2 odd hrs on the rollers.

And the engine running to higher levels than it ever has.

What makes you people think thats not going to stress parts more than they have ever been for the first time, just like you should change you oil several times when running an engine in, its the right thing to do whatever your mate says.

:rolleyes:

bloke101
08-10-2007, 22:02
Originally posted by KNOXVILLE
You got a degree, wow!!

Back street garage, wow!!

Ask any of the proper tuners what they'd do ;)

your ignorance is making me smile.

cossie1
08-10-2007, 22:04
Originally posted by bloke101
i said 20 30 miles after a mapping session.

This is after 2 odd hrs on the rollers.

And the engine running to higher levels than it ever has.

What makes you people think thats not going to stress parts more than they have ever been for the first time, just like you should change you oil several times when running an engine in, its the right thing to do whatever your mate says.

:rolleyes:

and I posted " will not need changing after 20 - 30 miles of a mapping session"

KNOXVILLE
08-10-2007, 22:04
Originally posted by bloke101
your ignorance is making me smile.

Hook

Line

Sinker

Better?

Chris J
08-10-2007, 22:07
Change the oil severel times while running in an engine? I think you should go back to night school my friend. ;)

andy i
08-10-2007, 22:08
I was led to believe that running your car on the rollers was 'less' stressful than on the road, without mapping ofcourse, and I don't think you would get many metalic fibres on your drain plug either, as just adjusting a few settings wouldn't create major wear like that straight away, imo, if it did your motor isn't going to last too long after the session. :eek:
I am a vehicle technician by trade and in my opinion i would class changing the oil after a mapping sesh as a bit ott, not bad just ott, but where would you stop if you did do that, every hard run you had . . . na, but if it was maintained as 101 says then it would be a good car to buy off someone ;)

topdog7
08-10-2007, 22:10
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bloke101
[B]Change them before, as well as the oil/filter.



Then change the oil after 20 30 miles of hard driving afterwards.

A bit OTT,

bloke101
08-10-2007, 22:15
Originally posted by Chris J
Change the oil severel times while running in an engine? I think you should go back to night school my friend. ;)

whys that?

Mineral based oil, semi for a peroid then fully syn.

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/runin.htm

random google first page found.

By your post im taking it you think changing the oil when running in an engine is a stupid idea?

I tried but i cannot see why you would think that?

Explain?

And im still at nightschool. Have been for last 4 yrs. :p

perhaps you should come? :D

bloke101
08-10-2007, 22:15
Originally posted by topdog7
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bloke101
[B]Change them before, as well as the oil/filter.



Then change the oil after 20 30 miles of hard driving afterwards.

A bit OTT,

Whys that?

topdog7
08-10-2007, 22:24
I find this hard to believe that after a remap the oil needs changing this much. My car has increased in bhp with a few mods without a remap and i don't change my oil after 20-30 miles?

Overkill springs tae mind

Chris J
08-10-2007, 22:25
Run it in on mineral for a 1000 then change it done. Thats what i would do, Good site though ta :)
Lol night school good guess :crackup:
Anyway Stig talk to the person that is mapping it but i really doubt you need to change the oil whatever Dr101 teaches us

Fastedd
09-10-2007, 08:46
Bloke 101,

You were exaggerating again.

Originally posted by bloke101
Ok, sorry it did not look like a headghog.

I was generalising.

Nothing is the cause of anything technically in an engine, its a string of cause and related effects accross many interrelated systems over a period of time.

If you dont change your oil after a remap, you will do it more harm in the long run than good.

better?

stig
10-10-2007, 15:05
anyway fooook the oil debate
:confused:


wot about spark plugs plz


hks or denso ??

andy i
10-10-2007, 15:11
ngk :D

cossie1
10-10-2007, 15:22
Originally posted by stig



hks or denso ??

There the same thing, just HKS cost more.

Get the NGK's

stig
10-10-2007, 15:57
Originally posted by cossie1
There the same thing, just HKS cost more.

Get the NGK's

oh yeah, wot a plum

i meant ngk or hks

feedback i,ve had over the phone from tuners is hks, yet it seems the majority of mlr run ngk.

cossie1
10-10-2007, 16:05
Originally posted by stig
oh yeah, wot a plum

i meant ngk or hks

feedback i,ve had over the phone from tuners is hks, yet it seems the majority of mlr run ngk.

2 reasons for that

Most tuners are HKS suppliers, and most members on here, go for the best plugs for there needs.

stig
10-10-2007, 16:49
:shrug:

cossie1
10-10-2007, 17:26
NGK's will be fine for your needs mate.

Pockets
10-10-2007, 17:38
densos ;)

Adamantium
11-10-2007, 08:44
Originally posted by amazingjames
Well said mate..Why would a remap make the oil so dirty after 20 or 30 miles??. all you do is up the boost and fiddle with the fuel slightly to level it out..It should cause no more harm than before the map.An engine drven at 4000 revs at 0.8 bar of boost and an engine driven at 4000 rpm at 1.4 bar of boost is going to cause no more engine wear than each other..The moving bits are still moving at the same speed they just get there a fraction quicker thats all.Really no need to change the oil 20 or 30 miles later whatsoever..Just stick to the service schedule..Might be worth changing the oil before the remap but only so you have nice clean new fresh oil in and engines like nice clean fresh new oil...

Sorry James, not true.

There are a number of things that change, some good, some bad. First of all, during mapping, the fuelling isn't always right, as they have to check logs then reflash if it didn't look right, especially with ecuteks that you can't live map yet. So, you will be running rich for a preiod of time. Whatever Bloke 101 says, I think he has forgotten that running rich for a few minutes can lead to bore wash which can contaminate the oil. Also he thinks that unless you have buggered rings you can't contaminate the oil, also wrong. The ring gap does allow oil blow by, that's why we have positive crank case ventilation and/or oil catch tanks, because combustion gases do get past the rings. so with that in mind.

running rich can contaminate your oil.

running at great boost increases pressure on piston which leads to increased side load of the piston, so it does wear faster and can rub more against the cylinder in the absence of an improved oil film to cope, this can lead to more metal flakes

conversely, running higher boost forces the rings onto the lands more positively which improves ring seal and therefore can reduce oil blow by and reduce oil contamination.

in short there are a number of factors some positive some negative that can influence oil quality after mapping.

Would I change oil after a mapping session? no. Have had way too many mapping sessions and never seen anything untoward as a result.

Would I change oil when running in? without question but not in the way described above?

Should you use HKS spark plugs? no. have seen anygines fail due to the tips melting off and damaging the pistons.

stig
11-10-2007, 12:03
THANKS for advice everyone- think i,m off to get some ngk,s br8eix,s :)


just hope they come with the right gaps for my car will post results after remap ;)

now which oil shall i use after the remap ??????????? :crackup:

Adamantium
11-10-2007, 12:33
silkolene or motul wuld be my choice.

5 or 10w/40 or 50 depending on level of tune and the weather.