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Meister gt1s v ohlins r&t

23K views 102 replies 33 participants last post by  squeakyclean32 
#1 ·
Anyone got any experience of both and any feedback between the two?? Undecided as to what to get, majority is fast road but want to do quite a few track days so want best of both!
Main question is, is the ohlins worth the extra £700??
 
#4 ·
This is one of those thread that I am just going to sit and listen.
If anyone require answers on any technical questions, I am on hand to answer them.
But won't be providing any personal opinion on this. :)

I do want to say that Ohlins DFV is a great suspension.
It is what I use as the "gold standard" that the MeisterR GT1 was designed to compete against.

Jerrick
 
#48 · (Edited)
This is one of those thread that I am just going to sit and listen.
If anyone require answers on any technical questions, I am on hand to answer them.
But won't be providing any personal opinion on this. :)
Jerrick
It's a pity you didn't stick to this promise:smthumbdo

Personally, within this bracket, I feel the KW V3 is a completely different product.

KW V3 is 2-way adjustable twin-tube damper
MeisterR / Ohlins is a 1-way adjustable mono-tube damper.

For starter, a twin-tube have inherit performance disadvantage compared to a mono-tube damper.
Effect such as phase delay or heat fade are not often mention because it doesn't show off in damper dyno, but is a very real dynamic effect when the suspension is being used.

The separate compression / rebound adjustment is a nice feature of a 2-way damper if the customer know how to adjust it.
For example, when customer tell me they want a 2-way / 3-way damper, I often ask "If the car is a bit unstable under braking into the corner after the main straight way, what do you adjust to reduce that unsettle feeling"
I would say 8 out of 10 person have no idea.
If they do not know what to adjust, chances are a incorrect damper setting will provide a poorer performance than something that were pre-set in advance.

The MeisterR GT1 / Ohlins DFV is about having a high performance damper that customer can easily use.

The idea of the Ohlins DFV / MeisterR GT1 damper was:
Mono-tube damper, because that is a performance design that is more reputable and consistent.
1-way adjustment, because customer can just turn a knob and find what he want, the dynamic of the damper will work at any setting because the damping ratio was pre-set internally.

Now, some of this may matter for customers, some of these may not.
But because of the difference in adjustment difficulty, and the fact that the dampers are of a completely different design, that is why I class the KW V3 in a different category from the Ohlins DFV / MeisterR GT1.

Jerrick
Notwithstanding the above, the first line of this post looked encouraging. But then you start making spurious and negative comments about a top quality opposition product. Your argument for having single rather than separate adjustment of bump and rebound is simply laughable:wallbang:

The biggest difficulty I have when customer ask me for help with the KW V3 is that I have no data for them.
Without the data, I couldn't even try to work out a reasonable guess at what damping adjustment will the damper reach critical rebound for the paired springs rate.
Without the data on the compression force, I couldn't work out what damping ratio I can run either.
Jerrick
Why on earth would someone with KWs come and ask you for help? I rather think that KW might be the better place for that, don't you?

By all means provide factual information about the product you promote, but otherwise stick you what you first said and simply sit and listen:)
 
#8 ·
Gone for the GT1's, customer service from Jerrick has been brilliant, but without a doubt ohlins is one of the best suspension there is although after hearing from a couple of people who have had a problem or wanting to get theirs rebuilt I don't fancy waiting 3 months for ohlins to sort it!:thumbdown
 
#12 ·
Since the GT1 are custom build, the average build time is 3 weeks from point of order to build.
In the future, I intend to have GT1 ready on the shelf for next day delivery.

Should the GT1 dampers ever fail and need a rebuild, we can get those turn around within a week.
We have done in extreme case turn around within 1 day, but that was for a race car that need to get the damper back in their hand for a up coming race meeting.

Basically with MeisterR, if it needs to be done, we will do everything we can to make it happen.
We can't always make magic happen, but we certainly will try to do our best.

Jerrick
 
#13 ·
I'm very interested to hear peoples opinions on the gt1's as i'm looking at these next for the car to replace my ohlins (jap spec) as the car is mainly used on the road



Mick Gardner Racing in Barnsley are Ohlins authorised mate, Russ who works there knows his stuff and is always happy to help with info on settings etc..
 
#14 ·
It's interesting that there don't seem to seem to be any members (that I've seen, anyway) who've gone from Ohlins to GT1's and are able to offer the direct comparison.

I have a set of GT1's and I am very impressed to the point that I have no regrets buying them over the Ohlins. Comapred to EXE-TC which I had on an 8 a few years back they feel far more firm under turn in and just as good in normal driving- basically I think the GT1's are better.

The KW's are meant to be very good (and I love the idea of stainless bodies) but are harder to get right as they really need setting up to suit the car and geo. My understanding is that it's a bit like android Vs iOS; iOS doesn't need much setting up whereas Android can potentially do more, but it takes more setting up to do so and more critically to get the best from it.

As Jerrick once pointed out, road suspension has a harder job to do that dedicated track suspension due to the variance of surface and defects compared to a race track. Happily take someone for a spin in mine (subject to weather and time) if you're local.

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=526868&page=2
 
#15 ·
Just ordered a set of Meister GT1's to replace Ohlins on my X. KW V3 were the original route but after reading all the available info on the GT1 and considering they are £500 cheaper than the KW I thought they were worth a punt. Also the KW did not come with top mounts and I did not have oe top mounts with the Ohlins fitted. Had to factor in another £150 for new top mounts. Time will tell.
 
#16 ·
Read your review Ads when deciding :smthumbup, what do you think to the spring rates? That's the only thing that I worried about, as the front is usually harder than rear, like ohlins is 10kg front and 8kg rear I believe? Meister being 7f 8r?
Jerrick spoke about wheel frequency etc but I would have thought that would make the back end seem quite light with softer springs on the front with all the weight and harder springs on the rear?
 
#22 ·
I can't really comment as I've not changed the springs- they're as they come from MeisterR. I will say that the fronts don't feel overly soft, but they are compliant which is a good thing on the road IMO. Certainly makes for a nicer drive and I would imagine also improves grip!
 
#17 ·
stock evo has stiffer springs in the rear... this is due to different motion ratio of rear dampers (in evo 4-9) than the fronts, which, when you calculate the wheel frequences, mean that you need somewhat stiffer springs in the rear for proper balance..
7/8 or 8/9 is a really nice balance for evo 7-9 which will work well with stock rear ARB..

I tried ohlins on 10/8, and on 8/10 (a bit too aggressive for most) and for my car, after a lot of calculation, opted for 8/9 (not ohlins or meister R mind you).. having said that, no one should be afraid of chaging springs a bit after some experience.. it is not expensive and most adjustable shocks have enough adjustment range anyhow..
 
#19 ·
Well, lets just say don't worry... because if MeisterR coilovers isn't doing what you want, you will know exactly who to call. :lol:

The thing is you got to look at the springs as well as the damper, because they work together dynamically.

A good case is recently I have been helping a Mini Cooper race car.
They weren't happy with their current suspension, and ask me what can I do.

So I work out the dynamics, and it came back at 8/8 for a race car on semi-slick to achieve the wheel frequency I feel will work.
He say all the fast car last year was on 8/10 in order to help the rear rotate better.

I check the numbers, check it again, and say go with 8/8...
That is what my dynamic model is telling us will work, trust us on it.
If it doesn't work, let me know and we can make changes after the 1st test day.

So off he went, came back and said:
"The rear damper feels much stiffer, overall feels really good, the rear rotate very well, and he still have more adjustment available."

And yes, they will be using MeisterR for 2017. :smthumbup

This is a good case showing how good "compression" force adjustment makes all the difference in the world.
Because dynamically that is how you dial out the understeer.

The previous year rear damper didn't have enough damping force, and so they have to use "heavier" springs to mimmic the lack of damping force.
While behind the seat it feels similar; it function completely different dynamically.

Using harder springs don't change how the tyres are loaded, and cannot change for different surfaces.
There are lots of other problem when you just slap in harder springs also, but lets leave that for another discussion.

The damper actually changes how the loads are applied to the tyres, and therefore directly affect the traction the tyres can generate.
You can also adjust the damping, meaning you can change for different surfaces such as wet surfaces.
This also mean you can adjust the understeer / oversteer bias using the damping.

Anyways... slightly off topic... but basically the 7/8 will be fine.
For the EVO 4 - 9, you want / need a slightly stiffer rear springs.
We have good reason to do what we do, we didn't just pick a number out from the sky. :coolsm:

Jerrick
 
#20 ·
I went out for a drive in a car with these fitted last night, both as a passenger an a driver. must say the ride is brilliant. very smooth, plus the handling was great.

unfortunately i cant compare to others i.e. ohlins/kw but i can say these are great quality .

will be ordering some in the next few days.

dan
 
#24 ·
What's the thoughts on the KW V3? Did think going for Ohlins but heard there are reliability issues and they can take 3-4 months to fix/service.
 
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#25 ·
I had hsd on my car which are shocking! I in the middle of building my time attack car for this season, i didnt know who to use kw bilstein ohlins or meisterr so i sent a email to all 4 companies! Kw ohlins nothing! Jerrick from meister replied fast and we went forward from there! EVEN bilstein a sponsor of time attack wasn't interested even after i was given Aaron number at bilstein just not even a reply! Which i found bad from bilstein!!

I havnt got my coilovers yet but the custom care from jerrick is nothing but amazing cant recommend them enough!!:smthumbup
 
#28 ·
Not quite the point of the thread but I've had the original standard Mitsubishi shocks and eibach springs on from new and they still work great. 15 years. Makes you wonder the point of mega bucks coilovers on a road car.
 
#38 ·
Thanks for your interestesting response. I better get reading on the ins and outs of adjusting the two way system...
 
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#39 ·
The biggest difficulty I have when customer ask me for help with the KW V3 is that I have no data for them.
Without the data, I couldn't even try to work out a reasonable guess at what damping adjustment will the damper reach critical rebound for the paired springs rate.
Without the data on the compression force, I couldn't work out what damping ratio I can run either.

It is very difficult to tune by "feeling", as everyone have different description.
The only baseline I can make have to come from data off a damper dyno, and it isn't data that KW have provided customer and therefore it makes damping adjustment a guess in the dark.

I know some dealer have "baseline" adjustment that they provide to customers for the KW V3 that they sell.
Those will be worth their weight in gold if those setting was based on damper dyno.
Because asking customer to pay for hours of dyno time in order to find out what their dampers are doing is actually not a very economical or feasible solution.

Once you have a baseline, then you can make some fine adjustment because you always have a base to go back to.

Jerrick
 
#40 ·
Just thought I posted up something I found interesting from this year AutoSport Show.

One of the rather unique feature of the MeisterR GT1 dampers is that we use a double 44mm piston inside.
This is different from other dampers as the GT1 actually use 2 full size piston with 2 wear tape.
This spread the load and therefore increase side load capacity without going into an inverted design.



This is a rather unique design, and I haven't really seen any other suspension brand using similar design... until last week.

It seems we weren't the only one using this double piston design, Moton seems to be using this also.



There aren't much literature on the function of their design, and it is probably different from the GT1.
But just thought it is interesting because this is actually the closest I have seen in terms of what the GT1 internals looks like.

Also, from an engineering point of view, the MOTON's damping adjustment system is a work of art.
Amazing precision and complex, it's no wonder why their 4-way dampers are £10,000 a set.
Overkill? Yes... but what a thing of beauty. :coolsm:

Just something interesting I found... :)

Jerrick
 
#47 · (Edited)
Just thought I posted up something I found interesting from this year AutoSport Show.

One of the rather unique feature of the MeisterR GT1 dampers is that we use a double 44mm piston inside.
This is different from other dampers as the GT1 actually use 2 full size piston with 2 wear tape.
This spread the load and therefore increase side load capacity without going into an inverted design.

Jerrick
Don't Nitron have a similar arrangement with twin piston supports?
 
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