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Old 13-09-2017, 10:54   #1
jpbacs12
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Meister GT1 Vs Kw Clubsport

Hi Lads,

anyone on here got and experience with these two coilovers, read some good things abotu the GT1 so far. Been also looking at the HKS, tein and billy coilovers.

Cheers JP
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Old 13-09-2017, 11:37   #2
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Most units at that price point circa £1,500 will be decent quality.

I'd go with whatever you can easily get via your tuner OR what has the right spec of spring rate and damper spec.

Actually, I personally went with the GT1 simply because you can tailor the spring rates to your own car and intended use and for that reason I can't recommend them enough. I'm not blinkered, though, and recognise the market is competitive.

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Old 13-09-2017, 12:13   #3
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Cheers for the reply, I read you reviews about them, it quite impressed me tbh. I normally go for the best when it comes to suspension but this does not need it for the application I will use he car for, hence checking the lower range of the market

JP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
Most units at that price point circa £1,500 will be decent quality.

I'd go with whatever you can easily get via your tuner OR what has the right spec of spring rate and damper spec.

Actually, I personally went with the GT1 simply because you can tailor the spring rates to your own car and intended use and for that reason I can't recommend them enough. I'm not blinkered, though, and recognise the market is competitive.

Cheerz

Mark H
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Old 13-09-2017, 15:15   #4
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kw clubsports with top mounts are £2500!!!
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Old 13-09-2017, 15:27   #5
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Originally Posted by war-machine View Post
kw clubsports with top mounts are £2500!!!
True, but are they that much better than the GT1?
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Old 13-09-2017, 22:48   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbacs12 View Post
True, but are they that much better than the GT1?
Are the KW Clubsport "any" better than the MeisterR GT1 is the questions?

That is a personal opinion, and answers will differ.
Until someone can do a back to back test, it will be a biased answer.

The GT1 are more comparable to the Ohlins DFV, a mono-tube 1-way adjustable damper using advanced CNC internal.
The KW Clubsport is a twin-tube 2-way adjustable twin-tube damper, so they aren't even in the same category in design.

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Old 14-09-2017, 07:18   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
Are the KW Clubsport "any" better than the MeisterR GT1 is the questions?

That is a personal opinion, and answers will differ.
Until someone can do a back to back test, it will be a biased answer.

The GT1 are more comparable to the Ohlins DFV, a mono-tube 1-way adjustable damper using advanced CNC internal.
The KW Clubsport is a twin-tube 2-way adjustable twin-tube damper, so they aren't even in the same category in design.

Jerrick
You would have a bias opinion lol, is there enough adjustment on GT1 to cover slicks aswell as track day tyres? are they good for both track and uk b roads?

JP
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Old 14-09-2017, 07:47   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbacs12 View Post
You would have a bias opinion lol, is there enough adjustment on GT1 to cover slicks aswell as track day tyres? are they good for both track and uk b roads?

JP
The answer is yes. Plenty of damping adjustment. It is a one way adjustment, though.

I chose 7kg/mm front springs along with 8kg/mm rear spring rate and found this to be optimum for a road-going IX and would use between 8-12 clicks from fully hard for road and between 1-2 clicks for dry track on Advan A048 tyres.

If it is a mainly road car I'd stick with those main spring rates. Actually, if I had kept my Evo I would've gone for progressive tender springs for road compliance and changed the main springs for Eibach ones in the process. Possibly stiffer. Not a cheap upgrade, but in my view the tender springs would've been worth it. However, if it is solely a track car I'd recommend getting Jerrick's technical partner to spec the springs after providing the front/rear weights and then have the car corner weighted.


Jerrick -

Is there a 2 or 3 way GT in the pipe-line?

Cheerz

Mark H
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:26   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
The answer is yes. Plenty of damping adjustment. It is a one way adjustment, though.

I chose 7kg/mm front springs along with 8kg/mm rear spring rate and found this to be optimum for a road-going IX and would use between 8-12 clicks from fully hard for road and between 1-2 clicks for dry track on Advan A048 tyres.

If it is a mainly road car I'd stick with those main spring rates. Actually, if I had kept my Evo I would've gone for progressive tender springs for road compliance and changed the main springs for Eibach ones in the process. Possibly stiffer. Not a cheap upgrade, but in my view the tender springs would've been worth it. However, if it is solely a track car I'd recommend getting Jerrick's technical partner to spec the springs after providing the front/rear weights and then have the car corner weighted.


Jerrick -

Is there a 2 or 3 way GT in the pipe-line?

Cheerz

Mark H
Cheers Mark,

It will be maily road, but driven hard, I have a few other performance cars and I hate dodging potholes and bump etc, so want to be able to hammer my evo down a b road and it will cope with it, bit like a rally car lol. Can Jerrick build a set with the helpers etc?

JP
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:33   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post

The GT1 are more comparable to the Ohlins DFV, a mono-tube 1-way adjustable damper using advanced CNC internal.
The KW Clubsport is a twin-tube 2-way adjustable twin-tube damper, so they aren't even in the same category in design.

Jerrick
Entirely true, but you omit to mention that the KW Clubsport is intended primarily for cars that get used on track, whereas the Ohlins DFV is predominantly designed for "fast road" (and occasional track use). To me at least this is slightly contradictory to the premise that a monotube design is likely to give a generally harsher ride than a twintube, because that most certainly isn't the case in my own practical experience (I have two Evo Xs, one with Ohlins and the other with KW Clubsports and both setup exactly as the respective manufacturers recommend).

So where exactly do the GT1s fit into this discussion? Or has it actually got nothing to do with mono versus twintube in this instance?
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Old 14-09-2017, 10:03   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
Entirely true, but you omit to mention that the KW Clubsport is intended primarily for cars that get used on track, whereas the Ohlins DFV is predominantly designed for "fast road" (and occasional track use). To me at least this is slightly contradictory to the premise that a monotube design is likely to give a generally harsher ride than a twintube, because that most certainly isn't the case in my own practical experience (I have two Evo Xs, one with Ohlins and the other with KW Clubsports and both setup exactly as the respective manufacturers recommend).

So where exactly do the GT1s fit into this discussion? Or has it actually got nothing to do with mono versus twintube in this instance?
Hi Phil,

Very interesting you have both set ups! These would be my first choice, are your Ohlins DFV? Did you weight your car for Kw or did you go with the off the shelf solution for this car? Could you give me a brake down of the pros and cons in your eyes of both sets.

Cheers JP
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Old 14-09-2017, 11:46   #12
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Further to Plip's comments above, I too discovered when researching dampers that the Ohlins DFV is more road focussed, so consequently went for the KW Clubsports as I wanted a more track biased setup.

I can't comment on the Meisters as I have had no experience of them.
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Old 14-09-2017, 12:16   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbacs12 View Post
Hi Phil,

Very interesting you have both set ups! These would be my first choice, are your Ohlins DFV? Did you weight your car for Kw or did you go with the off the shelf solution for this car? Could you give me a brake down of the pros and cons in your eyes of both sets.

Cheers JP
Yes, Ohlins DFV.

They were on both cars when I bought them so I take no credit or responsibility for the choices.

The DFVs are on my everyday SST (with Goodyear F1 tyres) and, for me, are perfect for every kind of normal road surface etc - ie very comfortable, but always providing that reasurrance that they will provide great control and stability over even the poorest B roads without ever being harsh or crashy. On track, I'm told by several extremely competent drivers ( I don't personally drive on track) that they are OK, but too soft if really trying to push on (but that was still on normal road damper settings).

The KWs are on a X RS (currently on R888s) and is a completely different animal to the SST. To be honest I haven't driven is all that much, but what has struck me as quite surprising is that it doesn't feel harsh or uncomfortable at all. So I certainly don't think anyone should shy away from the Clubsports, say in favour of KW V3s, purely on those grounds. The car has also been driven on the road by a very experienced track driver and he reckons the Clubsports would be well suited to the circuit environment (ie much better than the Ohlins) and I hope to provide that opportunity shortly once a boost control issue has been sorted.
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Old 14-09-2017, 14:07   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbacs12 View Post
You would have a bias opinion lol, is there enough adjustment on GT1 to cover slicks aswell as track day tyres? are they good for both track and uk b roads?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpbacs12 View Post
It will be maily road, but driven hard, I have a few other performance cars and I hate dodging potholes and bump etc, so want to be able to hammer my evo down a b road and it will cope with it, bit like a rally car lol. Can Jerrick build a set with the helpers etc?

The GT1 is the technology, but they are custom build.
In another word, one person GT1 may be different to another depending on what was ordered.
The GT1 is not off the shelf like the Ohlins DFV or the KW, it is more in line with custom build suspension such as Nitron or Quantum.

For a good road setup that will cover semi-slick, the standard springs setup is 7kg/mm front, 8kg/mm rear.
This will do a good job providing the control needed on track days on stiffer damping setting, but the road compliancy and comfort wanted over uneven road surfaces on softer setting.

If you are going to get into full slick tyres, then you really need a stiffer springs rate to take advantage of that.
But using that stiff springs will take away road compliancy.

We can certainly build GT1 damper to work on slick tyres and have done so before, it all depends on what you want to do with the car.

If you want helper springs an long travel damper, that is a option also.
It will all depends on what springs rate suit your need, then you design a setup from that point on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
Jerrick -

Is there a 2 or 3 way GT in the pipe-line?
Yes, our GT3 (3-way adjustable race suspension) are ready.

This set is going out to an EVO9 to Asia, a Time Attack Car using WTCC (World Touring Car Championship) Slicks tyres.



Quote:
Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
Entirely true, but you omit to mention that the KW Clubsport is intended primarily for cars that get used on track, whereas the Ohlins DFV is predominantly designed for "fast road" (and occasional track use). To me at least this is slightly contradictory to the premise that a monotube design is likely to give a generally harsher ride than a twintube, because that most certainly isn't the case in my own practical experience (I have two Evo Xs, one with Ohlins and the other with KW Clubsports and both setup exactly as the respective manufacturers recommend).

So where exactly do the GT1s fit into this discussion? Or has it actually got nothing to do with mono versus twintube in this instance?
MeisterR GT1 is a mono-tube damper, KW Clubsport is a Twin-tube damper.

You can make Mono-tube or Twin-tube as soft or as stiff as you need.
The Lexus SC430 come standard with mono-tube dampers for example, and it is one of the softest damper ever to the point where it is literally underdamped always.
The difference is how they work differently in operation.

Monotube damper are under high gas pressure, and so they have faster reaction as there is no "phase delay".
Monotube also dissipate heat better, which mean more consistent performance under hard usage.

There are performance advantages of using Mono-tube dampers, and that is why most OEM high performance vehicle application also use mono-tube dampers.
Again, as with everything it all depends on the build.

Jerrick
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Old 14-09-2017, 17:33   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
The GT1 is not off the shelf like the Ohlins DFV or the KW, it is more in line with custom build suspension such as Nitron or Quantum.
Maybe the Ohlins DFV and KWs are off the shelf, but nevertheless designed to suit specific models with spring rates and valving to suit?

What bits are "custom" on GT1? Just the spring rates or damper valving too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post

If you want helper springs an long travel damper, that is a option also.
It will all depends on what springs rate suit your need, then you design a setup from that point on.
In post 9 from Rampant he mentions "progressive tender springs". Isn't the purpose of those completely different to "helper springs"? Aren't they incorporated simply to avoid a short main spring flopping about under full droop conditions? Or is there another reason for using helper springs?



Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
Yes, our GT3 (3-way adjustable race suspension) are ready.

This set is going out to an EVO9 to Asia, a Time Attack Car using WTCC (World Touring Car Championship) Slicks tyres.

So you mean Yokahama slicks ie the ones that were in the limelight earlier in the year for a failure at the Nurburgring?

What kind of spring rates are you proposing for this Evo 9? Are they as much as 16kgs that my old 9 ran with to pretty good effect in UK TA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
MeisterR GT1 is a mono-tube damper, KW Clubsport is a Twin-tube damper.

You can make Mono-tube or Twin-tube as soft or as stiff as you need.
The Lexus SC430 come standard with mono-tube dampers for example, and it is one of the softest damper ever to the point where it is literally underdamped always.
The difference is how they work differently in operation.

Monotube damper are under high gas pressure, and so they have faster reaction as there is no "phase delay".
Monotube also dissipate heat better, which mean more consistent performance under hard usage.

There are performance advantages of using Mono-tube dampers, and that is why most OEM high performance vehicle application also use mono-tube dampers.
Again, as with everything it all depends on the build.

Jerrick
There's no doubt that the clear choice for high end race dampers is the mono-tube (including on KWs)

And you mention some of the advantages of the mono-tube design. However, aren't there a number of potential disadvantages too?
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