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Old 15-02-2017, 11:25   #76
Clivew
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And that's where you are so wrong Clive - even the most complex subjects are explainable in terms that anyone should be able to understand. The ability to communicate in that way is rare, especially among so-called technical people, but the best of them seem to manage it.
But why should Jerrick dumb down the info just so that you can understand?

That's a very entitled view you have.

You're basically criticising Jerrick because he didn't explain it in a way that you understand!

That's your problem, not his.
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Old 15-02-2017, 12:12   #77
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Phil - It is coming across that you have some beef with Jerrick / MeisterR here.

Jerrick - thanks for taking the time to put such detail into your posts - very noble of you to share this information / take the time to answer the questions.
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Old 15-02-2017, 13:27   #78
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Phil - It is coming across that you have some beef with Jerrick / MeisterR here.
Have you read the entire thread? If not, you need to in order to understand my comments and criticisms.

I have nothing personal against Jerrick, MeisterR, Black Art Designs or any of their products Not that long ago I actually thought quite hard about buying a set of GT1s, but subsequently decided against it.

But I do have issues with the way Jerrick conducted himself earlier in the thread and in the way he offers so-called technical explanations ie plenty of words, but little in the way of substance.
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Old 16-02-2017, 06:50   #79
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Have you read the entire thread? If not, you need to in order to understand my comments and criticisms.

I have nothing personal against Jerrick, MeisterR, Black Art Designs or any of their products Not that long ago I actually thought quite hard about buying a set of GT1s, but subsequently decided against it.

But I do have issues with the way Jerrick conducted himself earlier in the thread and in the way he offers so-called technical explanations ie plenty of words, but little in the way of substance.
Hi Phil - Yes I've read the thread and to be honest I'm not sure why you've taken the stance you have.

To contribute an opinion to the topic of this thread - I personally wouldn't opt for the MeisterR's - I would go for the Ohlins DFV's. I do have first hand experience of using the DFV's on a 5RS and they are nice coilovers for people who mainly use their cars on the road but want something better than the OEM shocks on track - they do this well. I did end up changing them but only because I found them a bit too soft for how I was using the car (more track focused than road). I considered trying heavier spring rates and re-valving them but opted out of the faff of the development time/money to get it how wanted it. Instead I changed over to a set of coilovers that were more suited to how I intended to use the car out of the box.

Alongside OEM shocks on evo's I've tried:
BC Racing RM,
Stance GR+,
Tein Mono Flex,
Ohlins DFV
Nitron NTR R3

I would rate the shocks in that order too (the BC's being the worst). Unsurprising it would appear that you do indeed get what you pay for.... hence why I would opt for the Ohlins over the MeisterR's.
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Old 16-02-2017, 09:12   #80
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And that's where you are so wrong Clive - even the most complex subjects are explainable in terms that anyone should be able to understand. The ability to communicate in that way is rare, especially among so-called technical people, but the best of them seem to manage it.
Unfortunately that really isn't the case Phil. If it was, i'd have a degree or doctorate in advanced astro physics. Unfortunately it can't be explained to me simply enough for me to understand it. Bit like Mathematics. Might as well be written in chinese.
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Old 16-02-2017, 11:26   #81
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Unfortunately that really isn't the case Phil. If it was, i'd have a degree or doctorate in advanced astro physics. Unfortunately it can't be explained to me simply enough for me to understand it. Bit like Mathematics. Might as well be written in chinese.
I can't help it if you are a total thicko
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Old 16-02-2017, 11:33   #82
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Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
And that's where you are so wrong Clive - even the most complex subjects are explainable in terms that anyone should be able to understand. The ability to communicate in that way is rare, especially among so-called technical people, but the best of them seem to manage it.
Not sure about that, you explain the subject to the level of the people who are listening or reading...

I did 4 years of mechanical engineering and only understand a small percentage of what the full system set up is, so I think for anyone who has an idea about this should understand fully what was explained, as well as finding it an enjoyable read ....

For example my sister may understand that its there to stop "bumps" in the road.... Nothing else, how can you explain that a spring and damper helps that, when she wouldn't even know what a damper is....

Bit silly to complain on effort taken to explain such situations, easy to just sit and do nothing, wouldn't really be a forum would it....
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Old 16-02-2017, 12:09   #83
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But then you start making spurious and negative comments about a top quality opposition product. Your argument for having single rather than separate adjustment of bump and rebound is simply laughable
Since my argument of of having single rather than separate adjustment is simply laughable, can you please explain why.

I can explain how to adjust a single adjustment damper easily.
You turn a knob until you find a setting that you are confident with, then you drive the car.

If you can please explain how to adjust a separate adjustment damper to the community please, because we are all waiting for your clear, short, and expert advice.

Also, If there was anything that I said was spurious, can you please point it out.

While I do not mind spending time and posting info here because those are work that I have done and I am not afraid to show it.
What I do mind is when you start to insulting members of the community with no good reason.

Since you are able to criticise my theory, I would like to hear your side of the debate in a fair and mature discussion.
Please don't copy and paste website also as we won't understand that, so tell us in terms that we all can understand.

Thank you.

Jerrick
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Old 16-02-2017, 12:58   #84
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Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
Since my argument of of having single rather than separate adjustment is simply laughable, can you please explain why.

I can explain how to adjust a single adjustment damper easily.
You turn a knob until you find a setting that you are confident with, then you drive the car.

If you can please explain how to adjust a separate adjustment damper to the community please, because we are all waiting for your clear, short, and expert advice.

Also, If there was anything that I said was spurious, can you please point it out.

While I do not mind spending time and posting info here because those are work that I have done and I am not afraid to show it.
What I do mind is when you start to insulting members of the community with no good reason.

Since you are able to criticise my theory, I would like to hear your side of the debate in a fair and mature discussion.
Please don't copy and paste website also as we won't understand that, so tell us in terms that we all can understand.

Thank you.

Jerrick
No problem Jerrick.

If I have a car that warrants having 2-way or 3-way adjustable dampers I would engage the services of a qualified race engineer to work in conjunction with the driver to achieve the optimal configuration.

The key thing is that whilst it is helpful that I personally have a broad appreciation of enginnering principles, including suspension sysems, I don't actually need to know or fully understand the detail. But what I do need to have is the ability to know who to select to provide me with expert advice, or, conversely, when the technical stuff being fed to me may be flawed or, quite possibly, downright wrong.
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Old 16-02-2017, 13:42   #85
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Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
If I have a car that warrants having 2-way or 3-way adjustable dampers I would engage the services of a qualified race engineer to work in conjunction with the driver to achieve the optimal configuration.
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Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
The separate compression / rebound adjustment is a nice feature of a 2-way damper if the customer know how to adjust it.
For example, when customer tell me they want a 2-way / 3-way damper, I often ask "If the car is a bit unstable under braking into the corner after the main straight way, what do you adjust to reduce that unsettle feeling"
I would say 8 out of 10 person have no idea.
If they do not know what to adjust, chances are a incorrect damper setting will provide a poorer performance than something that were pre-set in advance.
So when my supportive argument against a 2 / 3-way system is that 8 out of 10 customers do not fully understand how to adjust them, and you fit straight into that 8 people.
You somehow say that is spurious and that my argument is laughable.

You feel that customer should engage the services of a qualified race engineer to work in conjunction with the driver to achieve the optimal configuration for their ROAD CAR (What the KW V3 are mainly being used for).

Then you have the tenacity to to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
I can't help it if you are a total thicko

Quote:
Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
The key thing is that whilst it is helpful that I personally have a broad appreciation of enginnering principles, including suspension sysems, I don't actually need to know or fully understand the detail. But what I do need to have is the ability to know who to select to provide me with expert advice, or, conversely, when the technical stuff being fed to me may be flawed or, quite possibly, downright wrong.
So while you don't need to know or fully understand the details, you should be able to call "technical stuff" being fed to you be flawed or down right wrong.
Because you don't need to what is right or wrong, before calling it right or wrong...?

Your opinion is yours, and I have nothing against it.
You like KW, you like Ohlins... you can even like BC or E-bay JOM suspension.
That is a personal preference, that is something I will always respect.

But when you do not understand something, call it "smoke and mirror" without fully understanding it, then insult other members of the community.
That to me go against the etiquette I expect from members of this community.

Jerrick
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Old 16-02-2017, 16:16   #86
plip1953
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So when my supportive argument against a 2 / 3-way system is that 8 out of 10 customers do not fully understand how to adjust them, and you fit straight into that 8 people.
You somehow say that is spurious and that my argument is laughable.

You feel that customer should engage the services of a qualified race engineer to work in conjunction with the driver to achieve the optimal configuration for their ROAD CAR (What the KW V3 are mainly being used for).
Where did I say "ROAD CAR"?

As it happens, my road Evo has 1-way adjustable Ohlins and they are they were set up by reputable Evo tuner and I haven't needed to touch them since.

Why would I want to have 2-way or 3-way for the road?

But let me remind you of the topic under discussion and, in particular, this sentence in the OP's first post - "Undecided as to what to get, majority is fast road but want to do quite a few track days so want best of both!"

So are you saying the MeisterR GT1 isn't suitable for his needs (and maybe the Ohlins R&T too) because they really aren't suitable for the track?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
So while you don't need to know or fully understand the details, you should be able to call "technical stuff" being fed to you be flawed or down right wrong.
Because you don't need to what is right or wrong, before calling it right or wrong...?
You're confused? lol Try re-reading what you wrote and then tell me what you really meant to say!

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Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
Your opinion is yours, and I have nothing against it.
You like KW, you like Ohlins... you can even like BC or E-bay JOM suspension.
That is a personal preference, that is something I will always respect.
I don't believe I said I liked any of those. On a X I "like" standard Billies (but with Tein lowering springs), But as mentioned above, I currently have a X with Ohlins, but they were on the car when i bought it. They seem OK, but not my idea of ideal for the road. And since we're on the subject, the only other make I really do like is Nitron because I used to have a IX that was very successful with them on (on track).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterR View Post
But when you do not understand something, call it "smoke and mirror" without fully understanding it, then insult other members of the community.
That to me go against the etiquette I expect from members of this community.

Jerrick
Ah, but I think I understand enough to know when I am being presented with good information or something else. And in your case I think I've made my position pretty clear. Others will make up their own minds.

By the way, don't worry too much about the insult I directed at Capt. Mike. He and I know each other quite well so it was just a bit of banter -this is why it was followed by a crackup smiley
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