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Old 16-09-2017, 18:29   #31
plip1953
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If you are interested, let me know.
Quick tricky is always the case, potentially expensive can have a work around.

But most important is always interests as well as commitment.
Because things are always easier said than done.

Jerrick
The "trickiest" bit is making any test truly objective eg same car, same driver, same tyres, same road/track conditions. And then the cost element is pretty much down to ensuring the same things, plus getting hold of the product and installing/setting it up. And that's without any consideration of what to pitch it up against and whether the suppliers of the rival products were supportive/prepared to be involved?

I can provide a car, can probably persuade a company to do the installations and setups, and know a number of decent drivers that could do the on track stuff. And I can personally capture and analyse the track data.

Give or take a bit, I think it could be done for around £5k!
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Old 18-09-2017, 07:00   #32
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Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
The "trickiest" bit is making any test truly objective eg same car, same driver, same tyres, same road/track conditions. And then the cost element is pretty much down to ensuring the same things, plus getting hold of the product and installing/setting it up. And that's without any consideration of what to pitch it up against and whether the suppliers of the rival products were supportive/prepared to be involved?

I can provide a car, can probably persuade a company to do the installations and setups, and know a number of decent drivers that could do the on track stuff. And I can personally capture and analyse the track data.

Give or take a bit, I think it could be done for around £5k!
To be honest, i don't think there is ever such a thing as an "objective" test when it comes to suspension.
When we did our little fun project with the "Ring Banana" by installing a set of MeisterR coilovers resulting in a drop of 27 seconds off the lap time at the Nurburgring, many say it wasn't objective.
The only thing that was changed was suspension and fresh alignment.
Same car, same driver, same tyres, same track; all in posted unedited raw video.

If you ask me, a suspension "subjective" test is normally what you end up getting, and probably where it will show off suspension the most.
You can have a very stiff suspension that put in a fast lap time, and a really compliant setup that put in the same lap time; it does not make them equal.

A good suspension is suppose to provide compliancy with control.
It should feel stable driving over uneven road surfaces, and should not feel harsh.
That is much more difficult to engineer than a setup that will put in fast lap time at the track if you ask me.
The even harder task is to make a setup that will work well on those uneven roads, then have the adjustment available to go on a track and get the most out of the tyres and flat surfaces.
The GT1 was designed to tackle the difficult "Fast Road & Track" setup, and it does it very well.

A person who are used to good suspension can actually tell very quickly.
If I was to be put into a blind test with 2 car, one with a set of ZetaCRD and the other with a set of GT1; I can tell a difference after driving 10 minutes.

It isn't that the ZetaCRD are bad, it is just that the GT1 are exceptional especially on the roads.
You will very quickly pick up all the little task that the GT1 do just a little better, and it all end up to make a real difference in how a suspension feel.
This isn't something you can measure, and it is pure driver "subjective" observation.

I guess someone who is used to a set of Ohlins DFV or KW Clubsport can drive a car on a set of MeisterR GT1 and feel the difference.
Which one they prefer will be their preference, but I can say one can quickly tell if the suspension is rubbish if they are use to good suspension.

Jerrick
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Old 18-09-2017, 08:06   #33
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Re Jerrick's last post - whilst I agree for the most part with what he says, in the context of the kind of customer base that exists through forums such as the MLR there is very often a "sheep" mentality, and this can be both positive and powerful or negative and destructive. And this is especially true where the underlying products are being pitched into an otherwise already very mature market. Over the years I've seen quite a lot of evidence of this - on coilovers I think it used to be Tein that most went for, but then the fashion seemed to shift over to BC at the lower end and Nitron gained (and probably still hold) a very dominant position at the higher end. With brake calipers it seemed that AP was pretty much the only acceptable alternative to OE Brembo, but K Sport then came along and offered what seemed to a viable (and much cheaper) alternative and now most of the hype is around Alcon. And so on, and so on.

I wish Jerrick good luck with his mission. In my opinion his responses to questions and situations that have appeared on the MLR has significantly improved over the past few months and even the cynic that I probably am on these matters is now won over to position that MeisterR really is a credible product and that the all important support and service backup its there too. Sorry if any of what I've written comes across as patronising, but it's not meant to be.
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Old 18-09-2017, 11:10   #34
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Re Jerrick's last post - whilst I agree for the most part with what he says, in the context of the kind of customer base that exists through forums such as the MLR there is very often a "sheep" mentality, and this can be both positive and powerful or negative and destructive. And this is especially true where the underlying products are being pitched into an otherwise already very mature market. Over the years I've seen quite a lot of evidence of this - on coilovers I think it used to be Tein that most went for, but then the fashion seemed to shift over to BC at the lower end and Nitron gained (and probably still hold) a very dominant position at the higher end. With brake calipers it seemed that AP was pretty much the only acceptable alternative to OE Brembo, but K Sport then came along and offered what seemed to a viable (and much cheaper) alternative and now most of the hype is around Alcon. And so on, and so on.

I wish Jerrick good luck with his mission. In my opinion his responses to questions and situations that have appeared on the MLR has significantly improved over the past few months and even the cynic that I probably on these matters is now won over to position that MeisterR really is a credible product and that the all important support and service backup its there too. Sorry if any of what I've written comes across as patronising, but it's not meant to be.
I agree Phil, and will probably give Jerrick a call to see what we can come up wth for my Evo 5! which solution will be suit me!

JP
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Old 18-09-2017, 19:52   #35
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Originally Posted by plip1953 View Post
Re Jerrick's last post - whilst I agree for the most part with what he says, in the context of the kind of customer base that exists through forums such as the MLR there is very often a "sheep" mentality, and this can be both positive and powerful or negative and destructive. And this is especially true where the underlying products are being pitched into an otherwise already very mature market. Over the years I've seen quite a lot of evidence of this - on coilovers I think it used to be Tein that most went for, but then the fashion seemed to shift over to BC at the lower end and Nitron gained (and probably still hold) a very dominant position at the higher end. With brake calipers it seemed that AP was pretty much the only acceptable alternative to OE Brembo, but K Sport then came along and offered what seemed to a viable (and much cheaper) alternative and now most of the hype is around Alcon. And so on, and so on

I couldn't agree more, it's both comical and sad the way these things revolve
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Old 19-09-2017, 09:14   #36
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<snip>

In my opinion his responses to questions and situations that have appeared on the MLR has significantly improved over the past few months and even the cynic that I probably am on these matters is now won over to position that MeisterR really is a credible product and that the all important support and service backup its there too.

I hear what you're saying, but even then, all the best answers and info on a forum doesn't make a product itself credible.

You really have to try it out to make that judgement.

... Which I did. I can report that it is more than just credible and is actually a very good product. Alongside which I can personally vouch for the support and service backup.


Yours Aye

Mark H
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