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SiN-6
10-11-2000, 02:40
I have been told by a japanese hard-core tuner that FORCE-MIS-FIREing on a turbcharged vehicle(Mitsu Lancer Evolution VI) can massively improve the proformance, but as what i learn in auto-repairing program i have been told by instructor that mis-firing can screw-up your engine big time, do u guys have any idea about this? i have been searching in the web for a few days and still cant find any information. Or is this guy just bulls*iting me?

chunky
10-11-2000, 06:01
Sounds a bit ropey to me....

In any case, even if you wanted to do it how would you achieve this 'FORCE-MIS-FIREing'? Do you think he meant advancing the timing or what?

Mind ye, those Jap lads are a bit nuts, also seem to have a bit more lolly than most of us so maybe they could afford a new engine every 2000 miles http://www.ltregister.com/graphics/Wilk.gif <!--e3-->

howardb
10-11-2000, 08:02
This sounds like anti-lag to me. Mis-fire engine (ie don't apply igniting spark) and let the mixture pass unburnt to the exhaust manifold, where it gets burnt and drives the turbo.

Sean
10-11-2000, 09:31
Sounds abit strange this does, the easiest way to screw up the cat is to pass unburt hydrocarbons through it. Not only that why go to all that trouble getting a fuel/air mixture into a cylinder and then not burn it whats the benifit? Some of the old group B rally cars had an injector injecting fuel into the turbo turbine housing, activated when the throttle was shut to reduce lag ussually accomanyed the customary 2 foot flames out the exhaust. On occasions this system used to bang and crash perhaps giving the impression of a misfire.
What do you think possible or am I talking bo*l*c*s?

Cheers Sean

howardb
10-11-2000, 09:56
Sean,
I'm no expert, this is just what I've come across in trying to understand my car.

Firstly, you dont want a cat in the exhaust as it wont last 5 seconds when the Anti-lag starts off. You really need a full decat.
Secondly, I believe anti-lag was developed for rally cars to give boost 100% of the time. Not really suited for a road car, but some people have it fitted! Bet plod are impressed!

The idea is to ignite un-burnt fuel in the exhasut manifold, the resulting pressure from the explosion drives the turbo and keeps it spinning - thus the pops, bangs and flames from rally cars. I suppose you can directly inject petrol and air into the exhaust manifold and the heat will take care of the rest. The other way is to not ignite the fuel in the engine but let it pass through and then add air for the resulting explosion. The heat from the manifold is enough to ignite the mixture.

Hope this helps, and more to the point I hope Ive got my facts right (care to comment PTB??)

Howard.

darkEVO
10-11-2000, 10:16
All about anti-lag
|EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU||EQU|

http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/bangbang.html

bye,
[img]http://www.ltregister.force9.co.uk/graphics/Wilk.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >
dE

darkEVO
10-11-2000, 10:28
For street-cars, you need a bypass anti-lag sys. ..which you can turn ON if you wanna break down a scooby at a traffic light *let them him some *B A N G* 's !! [img]http://www.ltregister.force9.co.uk/graphics/Wilk.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >

|EQU| and amp;gt; afterwards when you could'n see him not any longer ..you can peaceful turn it OFF
(and your exhaust will THANK-YOU [img]http://www.ltregister.force9.co.uk/graphics/Happy.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle > )

bye,
[img]http://www.ltregister.force9.co.uk/graphics/Wilk.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >
dE

ptb.
10-11-2000, 10:47
Howard,

Sounds bang on!

PTB




Pun intended.

Sean
10-11-2000, 10:54
Thanks for the site DE and the comments Howard I think between us we have sussed anti lag, has anyone tryed a recurculating dump valve system? we used one to good effect on a lancer ex2000 in super road saloons. Has anyone tryed it on an evo?
Now what was the original question?

Cheers Sean

Howardb
10-11-2000, 11:26
Sean,

Please tell me more about the recirculating dump valve system.

My recirculating BOV has been re-positioned to before the throttle body and onto the EGR valve. I'm just wondering if this is what you are referring to? This was done by the previous owner of the car, so I have no knowledge of why.

Howard

(sorry for hijacking the thread but it is sort of anti-lag related.)

Sean
10-11-2000, 12:05
Howard
I take it your dump valve vents to atmosphere, we used a modifyed cossy intercooler and dump valve with the vent routed back into the intake side of the turbo, I have to admit it was abit heath-robinson but it did work. I haven't got any pictures but if anyone knows the were abouts of lancer reg.uvg 320x(joe macari's road saloon ex2000) or rfl 401x(jeff robinson's car) they both had them fitted. Alan Zini at Dragon might have some info as he was running a lancer at the time.
Cheers Sean

howardb
10-11-2000, 12:33
Sean,
Nope, it's a recirculating dump valve. One end goes to the EGR valve, the other goes to the pipe that connects the intercooler to the throttle body. Vacuum line to the normal place. Doesn't make a lot of sense, however, whoever did it went to a lot of trouble to do it, I just dont know why!
Howard

SiN-6
11-11-2000, 00:19
Thanks for all the input..so it DOES exist..

Sean
13-11-2000, 07:49
Howard
Sorry i haven't replyed sooner i couldn't get a connection from home.
Anyway to buisness the system on yours is an anti lag as you probably guessed. by introducing fresh cold air into the exhaust system just down streem of the valve a secondary burn is produced in the exhaust manifold, there are some manufacturers that use this system to reduce carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon emissions. In your case it sounds like the second burn is being used to keep the turbo spinning. the egr valve only opens on overun and cruise so dumping through that is a exelent idea, whoevers done it clearly knows their stuff auny idea who did it?

Cheers Sean

howardb
13-11-2000, 08:21
Sean,

The configuration on my car certainly puzzles most people who see it. To his credit PTB (who is on the other side of the world to me) has helped enormously in getting to grips with most of what is going on. However, I'd like to ask you more questions on this, and to save the other bbs readers sanity, could I email you direct? Can you send an email to howard_banks@hotmail.com and we can take it from there?

Howard

SiN-6
15-11-2000, 07:06
Alright, so is there any safe ways to install the ALS?
from the article link by DE saids the exhaust system can only last for 50-100km..(hmm..sure i dont want my newly installed 5-Zigen exhaust pipe bust in 50km man..)

p.s. I own a Stock Lancer Evo4 GSR.