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Chuck
11-06-2001, 20:16
Just got a copy of Revs this month and noticed two cars by RC Developments. Both cars state nearly 400bhp, with a cost of roughly 4000. Can anyone explain a few things, like, how come they are the only people to offer this sort of power without an engine rebuild. Is the horsepower correct?? and why are they so cheap?? 450bhp for 5500 !!!!!

Has anyone had any experience of them?? I also notice they do the fuel/boost route rather than complete ECU. It seems rather strange that a RS450 which is running at over 2 bar gets 380bhp with uprated internals etc. but yet they run at somewhere between 1.2 - 1.6 and get nearly 400bhp.

Anyone with some answers?

Heave Ho Six
11-06-2001, 23:01
The RC development car was also in Japanese Performance magazine.
It stated a claimed 378bhp and as you say without touching the ECU but by going the add on box approach. They seem to have ported and gas flowed the head, inlet manifold and throttle body and amp; exhaust manifold. The turbo has been modified by further porting. They have uprated cams and fitted vernier pullies and also turned up the boost. I was worried that the only internal mods were the con-rod bolts and clyinder head bolts but they did lower the compression ratio with a HKS head gasket so upping the boost (1.5bar) would be more acceptable. Of course they also have the usually uprated exhaust and induction kit. I think 378bhp is about right but maybe slightly high although a lot can be gained from the cams and boost but driveability may suffer for it. As a general rule modern engines can cope with power increases of upto 80% without starting to upgrade the internals, thats unless there are known weak links in the engine.

Personally I think if you are going to have 3 add on boxes (fuel controller, boost controller and ignition controller) then you might as well go down the remappable ECU route but that is just my opinion.

EVO21
14-06-2001, 16:26
I have had my car modified by RC Developments. They do know what they are on about and you do get honest advice. I wanted a package which was flexible and individually set up on my car, where buying an uprated ECU would not be mapped exactly to your car. The car is running 1.55 bar at high boost sustained (standard evo6 1.1 bar peak). What have I had done..... Apexi Boost Controller, Apexi Fuel/Airflow Controller, RSR Exhaust, Blitz Airfilter, HKS Induction Kit, Fuel Pump Upgrade, ARP Conrod Bolts, HKS Cams, HKS Variable Cam Pulleys, Metal Head Gasket, ARP Head Bolts, Additional Oil Cooler, Stainless Turbo Downpipe, Oil Breather, Spark Plugs, Uprated Suspension, Uprated front discs, Competition Pads (front and amp; rear), 18 OZ F1 Cup Split Rims running Yokohama YVS rubber. The car is blisteringly quick I just need a driver upgrade now (I did go out with the Instructor and Hunty at Cadwell - and what a difference thanks Paul and amp; Kevin) as this was only my 2nd track day I was pleased the car never missed a beat or put a foot wrong in 130 track miles all day. All you need to do is ring RC and speak to Clive Seddon he is THE MAN. 01925 575290

Claudius
14-06-2001, 17:04
Evo21

What is the Dyno verdict for your car?
Have you got a printout which you could post here?

EVO21
16-06-2001, 11:39
Car will be Dyno'd within the next 2 weeks at which stage I will be happy to post the figures

Hunty
17-06-2001, 09:27
Having driven Dave's car at Croft on Friday, and the owner of a 'quick' Makinen myself, I can confirm his car has terrific power delivery.

Being a gent and also the fact that the track was wet most of the day, Dave let faster cars past around the corners, only to pull them back at an alarming rate down the straights!

The dyno figures will be impressive!

batman
18-06-2001, 13:57
EVO21,

can you tell me what did it cost you for all the upgrade you have listed? Very tempted to do it but all down to

lawrence

silversix
19-06-2001, 07:52
Kevin,

OK how long til you get your Mak played with by RC then? Just think how fast it would be with Dave's power, and your slicks on.

Adrian

EVO21
19-06-2001, 10:01
BATMAN,

The costs depend on any existing mods you have done and if these components can be re-used. At RC even though they list Stage upgrades they do actually tailor the package to your car.

Clue on exact costs : (I'd rather not think about it)

So I suggest you ring Clive @ RC and have a chat.

Adamski
22-07-2001, 15:32
Interesting, my only concern with Rc comes when yo read the spec for Warrenders 340R. Using the standard fuel pump and putting more voltage through it for more fuel!! Anyone remember using electric motors at schoole, more volts|EQU|more heat|EQU|band. Also where is the fuel pump in an EVO [img]http://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/embarassed1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e6-->

Evoboy
22-07-2001, 16:14
Apparently , on the standard car, if the voltage is measured across the pump under load it's lower than battery voltage , this is due to resistive wiring , ie the wire is not large enuf to carry the current.
Simply by using the oem wiring to control a relay which is used to switch a heavier feed cable wired to battery or some other heavy current point via fuse will allow the pump 2 work at full rate without being overrun.

The pump is located in the fuel tank under an access cover.

daved6
22-07-2001, 21:06
Concerns me when some new tuner appears on the block claiming large power improvements by just bolting on bits of electronic *****

Three add on controllers to fool the ECU dosn`t sound the right way to go to me , serious power gains need to be controlled by a proper map ie programmable ECU set up to the car`s exact requirements.

Leave it std or do the job properly [img]http://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/wink1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e3-->

EVO21
08-08-2001, 15:55
For all the sceptics out there - why not come to one of the many track days and come out in one of the cars RC have tuned.

Will be at Croft on the 18th as will RC.

Cheers

David

Evo4Jon
09-08-2001, 01:56
Daved6,
Until you know what you are talking about don't label items such as the APEXi SAFC Electonic ***** as you so put it.

The benefit of bolt on stuff is that you have massive flexibility and you can tweek and adjust, as the car is further modified. Remapping has its drawbacks as well as advantages.

Clive at RC developments DOES KNOW HIS STUFF !!!

Of course, you will always get cases of ignorant people fitting and setting up the add on stuff and then blowing an engine to bits, but if you have the right monitoring equipment |PLS| a mechanic with a good understanding and knowledge of the cars then all will be fine. Subtle improvements can be then made to cater for less than ideal fuel such as 95RON.
The boost can be reduced and the fuelling enrichened slightly for example. With a remapped ecu then your car could be taken to the edge by a dim mechanic and there it stays waiting to BLOW ! I prefer to have the ability to return to standard if needed and to run the engine on a lower output for town driving etc. This to me is safer, especially when the mods are explained and understood as logical decisions.

Evo4Jon

Lightspeed
09-08-2001, 07:15
If you think japanese add on boxes are sh!te then you'd better tell all the jap tuners - like Veilside with 1100hp R32 Skyline - HKS add on boxes seem to work pretty good to me.

Apex S'AFC is a fantastic piece of kit for very little money (check out Takakaira if you feel like DIY tuning). It works very well for fuel trim modifying when aftermarket exhaust, air filter, cams etc have been added.

Best thing to start with has to be a data-logger. Dataloggers for Mitsubishis to run on laptops or Palm Pilots are available from US.

Aftermarket ECU's are no better if not properly mapped.

Michael K
09-08-2001, 07:19
It has to be said that Daved6 is right. The only proper way of tuning an engine is to have it remapped by a pro. Then you have to find out who is a good pro. But why not go straight to people that have a very small margin for error, the racecar engineers? That way you'll have the best map with the best equipment, and it's more adjustable than any add-on bits. Motec and maybe Gems are the only way forward....

PLUTO
10-08-2001, 20:55
std pump is fed a variable voltage...9 to 12 volts,depending on ....er ...things !
rewiring with direct quality cable ensures max flow (FLOW,not pressure)

as for jap electronic ****e

the biggest gains in recent years have been made in programmable electronics
who are the leaders in this field ?...the JAPANESE !

blade
11-08-2001, 07:37
PLUTO,

The pump runs at two voltages to ensure that at full throttle and full boost there is adequate fuel supply. The proper solution is to replace the pump, not rewire it!

On the subject of ECUS vs Add-on boxes, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter whether you get a new ECU, add on some boxes or repmap the existing one provided whatever method you use allows you to fully control all elements of fuelling, ignition, boost etc for the car and that the car is mapped/programmed/setup whatever on a dyno or rolling road by someone who knows what their doing - otherwise ALL these solutions are sh*te.

What I have not seen explained anywhere is how, for example, the PE remapped ECU compares to add-on boxes, and how Motec compares etc. E.g., what are the relative technical merits of one solution over another, and the differences in cost. Another interesting debate would be the use of Map sensors on road cars vs. Airflow meters.

Oh no, is that a can of worms I just opened...