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View Full Version : 272I/264e Cams Urgent Advice needed


Larry
08-02-2002, 16:50
1. What is the benefit of going with the 272i/264e set up

2. Why not go 264/264 or272/272

3. Assuming its better to go 264/272 do you need an adjustible cam gear.

4. Are there any idle problems.

I have an evo 6 and i am considering this upgrade so i would appreciate some quality advice from people that have gone this route.

Wazuptommi
08-02-2002, 16:59
264/272 with adjustable verniers,its the timing which is critical if you go this route e-mail me and I will give you the settings.

Barry:)

Blade
09-02-2002, 01:20
For the standard smaller turbo, there is little benefit in a longer duration exhaust cam as it doesn not generate boost well at high revs.

I have run the 272i 264e for some time, as have other people here. Am about to fit a 272e cam now that I have a larger turbo

Wazuptommi
09-02-2002, 01:44
Blade thanks for that,I must tell RC that they are doing it all wrong and should be guided by you,by the way have you sorted out your cam timing yet?

Yellow5
09-02-2002, 07:37
Blade means there is little benefit in fitting a 272ex if you have a stock turbo.

Dont ask me why, but the 272i/264e combination for a stock turbo seems
to work best, many top tuners ive spoken to dont even know why (!), but it
works.

Only a small loss of bottom end grunt (which can be negated by the
correct cam gear timing, a little more igntion advance lower down and an
HKS SS manifold) and has proven to give a massive 30bhp|PLS| at the top end.
A very slightly lumpy idle, but hardly anything to be concerned about.

Top mod, definitely one for the must do list [img]http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/Wilk.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >


Justin

Blade
09-02-2002, 10:51
Thanks Yellow5, that is exactly what I meant. You can fit a 272e if you want to, but for small gain it will give you, you will get a very lumpy idle - like RC's car which sounds like it is missing a piston as it is so lumpy.

Larry
09-02-2002, 16:44
Thanks every one for the good advice,especially Yellow 5.
Blade i an not sure if your suggesting there is no real benefit from using the stock cams or going from 264 to 272 with the stock turbo. Could you clarify this for me .Thanks

Blade
09-02-2002, 16:57
The widely accepted best practice for stock turbo is 272i 264e cams. You will see around 20bhp improvement, more with a manifold.

Larry
09-02-2002, 17:54
Hi Blade,

Thanks for the infomation on the 272/264 set up. Will i need adjustible cam gears or will they slot into pre-set positions. Thanks

Wazuptommi
09-02-2002, 18:17
Larry its as I said,though I can understand why you was getting confused.Blade confused me.

272/264 and if you want the correct cam timing to get the maximum gain E-Mail me.You will get a lumpy tickover but it is steady.

You could also ask MC Custard,according to PE his is the most powerfull Evo they have had on their Rolling Road,to date he has nearly 400bhp and runs on standard internals like you,he is a very knowledgeable guy and very helpfull and runs the cams you are interested in.

Hope that helps Barry:)

Blade
09-02-2002, 18:32
Larry, I am sorry that Wazzuptommi keeps on doing this interjection. He doesn't like me, so has to follow around all my posts and stick his nose in.

Get the cam wheels too. Cam timing will vary depending on other mods, but the most successful person with regards to timing is MC Custard - far more than any of the so called tuners.

Clive
09-02-2002, 18:34
Wazup,

In your first post you said 264/272 and in your second you said 272/264, now THAT is confusing;), which combination do RC recommend?

Larry
09-02-2002, 20:05
Thanks, Wazzuptommi and Blade.

Blade your advice is exactly what i wanted to know,which is the timing will have to be adjusted depending on mods done. I will definetly go with a 264/264 setting as this dos,nt require adjusted timing because i dont have access to a rolling road in Jamaica and setting the timing will just be a guessing game.

I know i wont be maxmising the cars potential but i will definetly have peace of mind not having to go back and fort to the mechanic re-setting timing all the time.

Thanks everyone for your quality advice

JUST CUSTARD
09-02-2002, 21:36
i was advised by clive at R.C. devs,to return my 264 inlet and exchange it for a 272
i do not regret taking his advice.
BUT,fitting without dialling in ,or without the hks valve springs....is pointless.

Larry
09-02-2002, 22:20
Thanks MC Custard.

I was Getting the cam springs as well but as you mentioned dialling them in with out a rolling road will be a guessing game.

Kindly Advise

Larry
10-02-2002, 12:49
Wazzuptommi,

Please e_mail the timing specs on the 274/264 cam set up.

laurence@cwjamaica.com

Wazuptommi
10-02-2002, 15:21
Blade,you are starting to get the hang of this now,Quote more successfull than so called tuners you have the ability to be petty,Excellent..keep it up..you will be as good as Simon soon.

By the way how am I following you around when on this post I made the first reply,I would suggest you think before you speak,and stop following me around!

Maybe you would like to end this thread for the benefit of modem users too.
Just post a reply to this then hit the moderator button,its easy, you know how, you have done it before.
And then once more you can have the last word.

There is a saying in life which I love,you can do what ever you like as long as you are prepared to accept the consequences............:D

Blade
10-02-2002, 16:27
Why don't you take a look at the message posted to you in the Blah Blah section.

Blade
10-02-2002, 16:28
Oh, and incidentally Barry my praise for Custard was genuine, and the reference to tuners included all of them, PE as well.

Wazuptommi
10-02-2002, 16:47
Blade I saw your speech in Blah Blah,and as predicted you closed the thread.

So I will have to reply here.

I am very sorry for any comments I made to you that upset you and I promise I wont do it again.

Simon,I am also very sorry for any comments of mine that offended you,and I also promise I wont do it again.

I also promise not to criticise any tuners on this forum,or any of its members,and I humbly ask for your forgiveness,and I will try to live up to the high standards that have been set by the moderators,and show respect to the commitee.

I in future will only post in the technical section,under brakes(I like brakes)and I will change my name to Angel Eyes,once again this is a sincere apology,and I ask anyone I have offended to accept it:):):)

Blade
10-02-2002, 17:18
I didn't close it - must have been Simon or Jerry (who both posted after me).

I hope you are sincere - and look forward to happier relations on this forum. From the posts I received from other members I know many people will be very happy to see an end to the bickering. I trust you will extend this attitude to Simon7Extreme, and that he will reciprocate in kind.

Best regards,
Tony Rodriguez

Wazuptommi
10-02-2002, 18:03
Blade,dear chap my apologies are sincere,I let the dark side consume me,and even though I nearly brought you down to the level I set,I got no satisfaction from it,so it is pointless to continue.;)

The Forum is now going to be a far happier and fun place to be.I look forward to our next meet the first rounds on me,and I wish you all the best with your continuing quest for Power....I mean 475bhp;)and if I can assist in any way please dont hesitate to ask.Im no expert but I have picked up a few things on the way,that might be of use.

Peace Love and Happiness,:):):) Barry

Blade
10-02-2002, 18:21
Barry,

To be honest I am bored of the quest for power. I am now on the quest for getting it working, reliable and with predictable costs. Will take whatever power comes out of this last tuning session - if that means 420bhp - fine, if we get 475 - even better. The end is nigh for major spending. A few things to sort out, and that will be that - shall concentrate on driving it and trackdays.

I will be bloody surprised if I can find the limits of the power I have got anyway.

Who knows - in 12 or 18 months time, I might start tweaking again, but for now - enough is enough!

Would be interested to know how far you intend to go - I mean how deeply the addiction has sunk into your veins! I am actually getting good at saying NO these days! I mean I have turned down parts on the basis that they are NOT REALLY NECESSARY - how strange is that! Funny old world....

I even cancelled the tuning parts on the M5! What is the world turning into.... :D

Haven't been this badly addicted since smoking!

Claudius v1.4
10-02-2002, 19:02
So you're getting tired of waiting for the programmer to come back?
You have a down moment, dont let it get to you! It'll be fine and your car will be running right with the new turbo. Then you'll just have to learn how to drive! :D Just kidding, but driving with a pro you always pick up stuff.

:)

Blade
10-02-2002, 20:22
Given up on waiting for him - am hiring someone next week to do it - GEMS, here I come!

Totally agree with the Pro stuff. My driving is getting better :D

You still coming to Oulton? should be good fun!

oli goon
13-02-2002, 11:47
Just custard,

why are the HKS springs a neccessity? I have always used the weakest springs (to reduce valve train wear and energy required to turn cams) that don't cause valve float at high rpm. Are you saying the valves float with the standard springs using the 272i cam? If so why? Is the valve closing rate very quick on the 272i? have ypou got the cam spec for this and the standard cams?

JUST CUSTARD
13-02-2002, 11:55
cant find it,but i have read somewhere the std,s can become coilbound at the higher lift.
in any event hks recommend them,and im a big fan of hks.

evotrak
13-02-2002, 20:51
for me, when it comes to cams there is only one place i would go:

<a href|EQU| http://www.kelford.co.nz target|EQU| _blank ><!--auto-->http://www.kelford.co.nz</a><!--auto-->

usual story, these people actually do things scientifically rather than just randomly selling/bolting on bits

still...who needs to do boring calculations and use sophisticated software to work out the optimal cam specs?

hoping for the best or getting the good oil at the pub is much more fun

andrew

JUST CUSTARD
13-02-2002, 22:39
for me, when it comes to cams there is only one place i would go:

i take it you do not rate HKS then ?
Which cams have you tried ?

Simon7extreme
13-02-2002, 22:44
evotrak

Always fills me with confidence a company that under its Japanese section lists FORD [img]http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/embarassed1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e6--> ;)

Katsuo Kobayashi
13-02-2002, 23:08
Andrew,

Are you in a bad mood today? :)


Cheer up! :) :) :)

evotrak
14-02-2002, 00:51
claudius my japanese sounding friend

yip i had a very bad day in court yesterday, the judge believed the cop who 'had floored' and 'was surprised he didn't catch me' as i was 'very fast through the bends' - he couldn't keep up with me requiring a road block further up the road to halt my progress

the judge did not believe my story, despite my presenting several pages of calculations as evidence, showing that i couldn't have possibly been over the speed limit and was certainly not doing the speeds claimed

funny thing was i didn't even know he was behind me until i came upon a whole heap of flashing lights - lol

simon
agreed sometimes these locals let themselves down with their web pages, still the ones in the uk are a bit of a 'mixed bag' as well

custurd
i am curently getting the standard ones measured, do this first as a baseline...then we are going to come up with an optimal profile for my car
the whole projects going to cost me half the price of the hks and i am sure the result will be as good as these are hand made to my personal requirements
i've given them the so called 'specs' of the hks (duration, lift) but this doesn't actually describe the cam properly
will see how it turns out, will stick the real specs of what i end up with vs oem on my site and should be able to demystify this one a bit

still got visions of getting that hks hyper muffler up the stairs, could have got a completly stainless one bent up locally for half the price and half the weight - still u live and learn

andrew

JUST CUSTARD
14-02-2002, 08:31
andrew,found these after i got the hks
<a href|EQU| http://www.roadraceengineering.com/webcaminfo.htm target|EQU| _blank ><!--auto-->http://www.roadraceengineering.com/webcaminfo.htm</a><!--auto-->

i have played with timing the std cams ...all over the place
mail me if interested

Larry
14-02-2002, 16:24
Mc Custard,

I just went on the Roadracing engineering website. They bring a completely different perspective to this discussion.

If i understand, they are suggesting the best way to go is changing to 272I only for the best results.

It would also appear that there cam bolts in with no need for timeing adjustment, hence no need for timing gear or valve springs.

Please correct me if i have misinterpeted something.

JUST CUSTARD
14-02-2002, 17:05
whatever cam you use,you will only get the best from it with a vernier timing wheel.

JUST CUSTARD
14-02-2002, 17:05
whatever cam you use,you will only get the best from it with a vernier timing wheel.

Wreckleford
14-02-2002, 17:50
Although I think the problems are sorted now, there was a problem with excessivelyhigh wear on the web cams.

Larry
15-02-2002, 01:51
MC Custord,

I know we have flogged this subject to death and i also know vernier timing wheels are very important.

I would like to know what you think of their 272i /256e combination.

Secondly is their any gain from a 264I / 264E combination.

JUST CUSTARD
15-02-2002, 09:32
i only know that 272/264 works for me.
it is worth giving rc a ring,i took their advice......
or indeed roadrace....but bear in mind not everything in the usa is applicable to the evo engine.

Larry
15-02-2002, 13:10
Thanks every body for all the good advice, i have lots on info to make an informed decision now.