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sam elassar
22-10-2001, 20:16
hi there
i am getting an EVO VII soon :). no the ralliart dealer is telling me that the cars they provide are the only ones that have a titanium turbos, i that true ?
also he is telling me their cars are running 1.2 bar as standard compared to 0.9bar i thought they ran.

is the titanium turbo the exact same spec as the steel one but with titanium compressor wheel then ?

thanks in advance

sam

Simon7extreme
22-10-2001, 21:51
Sam

Who is this Ralliart dealer? Don't be shy in telling us.

All the Ralliart 7's are imported with Titanium turbos. Most other 7s have the steel turbo but a few other importers have brought in cars with titanium turbos, but not many. So nearly right by the dealer.

Their cars running higher boost? This is total bull**** unless they are surning up the boost themselves. And finally, yes, the difference is in the compressor. The titanium one does get spinning a little earlier than a steel one and the throttle response is improved a bit (but not enough to justify the cost of changing)

sam elassar
22-10-2001, 23:44
so i take it they don't run 1.2 bar then ? :) he mentioned something about achieving the higher boost by changing the restrictors.

does anyone on here have an ralliart EVO VII with a boost gauge ?

he also said that the ralliart were dyno'd at between 296-302bhp !!!!!!

sam

Lightspeed
23-10-2001, 06:58
NOT the compressor!!!

The turbine wheel (hot side) is made from either

Inconel - 'steel turbo'

or

Titanium alloy - 'titanium turbo'.

The compressor wheel is always aluminum alloy.

sam elassar
23-10-2001, 10:15
ok
i spoke to the dealer again. its WARE ralliart, they say that the cars with the titanium turbos have got a different ECU alltogether. a selflearing ECU they said ? and it is crucial for all the Extreme upgrades and so on as it adapts to the UK fueling. now is this a lot of crap or is there some truth in this.

Lightspeed
23-10-2001, 11:06
There's definitely a strong odour in the air at that dealer.

Michael K
23-10-2001, 11:47
sam, those infos are the biggest pile of bull**** that I have ever heard about Evo's anywhere!! That dealer doesn't now anything, even less than PE, which says a lot coming from my mouth (or fingers in this case). I can't believe that anyone would invent something like that!! Confirms what I think about Ralliart, though. For everyone's info, AFAIK the 7 only comes with a titanium turbo anyway, yes, even in Japan, so all that Ralliart beware of steel turbos is a pile of crap too.

AndyF_RSX
23-10-2001, 11:51
Sam,
As far as I'm aware, all of the E6 and 7 have self learning ECU's. They use a knock sensor to detect detonation in the engine and retard the ignition accordingly. This means reduced power, but allows the car to run on different grades of unleaded and super unleaded without damaging the internals. I wouldn't believe them if they were saying that only the titanium turbo models have self learning ECU's......

For a standard E6, the peak boost is 1.1 bar with held boost at 0.9 bar. Check what boost figures they are quoting, is it peak or held?
It is true that they could change the restrictor to run a higher boost but as far as I'm aware, Ralliart don't change the restrictors on their standard 7's.

As far as the dyno figures go, you will get a range of figures for different cars, differents conditions etc and I'm sure that some 7's probably have dyno'd at 296-302 but they were probably a 'good' batch of cars. Anyway, dyno figures don't really say much, its how it feels when you drive it that matters :)

Andy

sam elassar
23-10-2001, 12:15
cheers
guys i am not that niave, i have had a lot of work done on my car, but i thought maybe evos are different. or lets more advanced.

one thing that springs to mind though, what is the boost cut off limit on the EVO 7 ?

Although ralliart may not know as much as us about cars but hopefully i will get hassel free ownership due to the warranty.

Claudiuslow
23-10-2001, 12:16
Sam

The ECU they say is essential for all the Extreme upgrades? Which ones? The twin tone paint or the 7 spoke wheels? Or maybe the Gems ECU with ALS??

It is true that you can change restrictors and get more boost. Pretty much all ECUs nowadays are self learning to some extend. But dont expect 20 bhp from that.

AndyF_RSX
23-10-2001, 12:21
Sam,
I'm not sure of the boost cut off for the 7 but for the 6, fuel cuts happen around 1.3-1.4 bar.

Andy

evojkp
23-10-2001, 12:23
Sam old boy, good to see you coming around. Soon be time for serious power figures. Time for me to change....me thinks!!?? [img]http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/Wilk.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >)

See you at Star....John

sam elassar
23-10-2001, 18:21
HI JOHN

me, power, mods i don't know what are you talking about ;).

paid my deposit today but i doubt i will get it before star :(, they say december before it arrives

chunky
23-10-2001, 20:56
evojkp

Been hiding John? :)

evojkp
24-10-2001, 09:05
Chunky, yeah you could say that...

I got totally dis- illusioned (sp??) with the whole thing for a while. V.nearly sold the Evo for something sensible:( but as they say, I have regained my faith after a new clutch and some serious grinning moments:)

You coming up to Star on the 25th Nov??


Sam, where did you order your 7 from? Please don't say it is an Edinburgh outfit, quite near the Airport. If it is keep an eye on them, especially at service times......Mitsu in Cupar are far more up to speed....IMHO and cheaper service costs.


...John

...John

sam elassar
24-10-2001, 11:59
hi john
the edinburgh garage western or something like that, were actually very poor i knew more about their cars than they did. and i don't know much.!!!!!

cupar did not think they could get me one until march

i am getting it from Ware garages they seem to have a lot of cars and good connections with ralliart. hopefully it will arrive early december but you never know really.

evojkp
24-10-2001, 12:28
Good show....looking forward to a hurl :)

Rich_R
24-10-2001, 14:57
Hi Sam,

On my VII I see boost of 1.4 kg/cm which drops off to about 1.1 kg/cm as you climb the rev range.

Sold your Scoob yet?

Rich

sam elassar
24-10-2001, 16:14
hi rich
it is being traded in :)

isn't that 1.4bar? that is what the dealer told me intially. was that the case when you bought it or is it due to the exhaust ?

have you had yours dyno'd yet Rich ? surely at 1.4 bar that will be a lot faster than your previous car ;)

sam

chunky
24-10-2001, 18:21
<blockquote><hr><font size|EQU| 1 >Original Post:</font><!--1-->I got totally dis- illusioned (sp??) with the whole thing for a while. V.nearly sold the Evo for something sensible:<hr></blockquote>??? Saw a tasty Shogun again did we? :)

Don't think I'll be at Star, really have better things to spend my money on at the moment as the flat we rent out is empty at the mo so I've got no spare cash :(

Simon7extreme
24-10-2001, 21:20
Sam

I cannot believe that you got so much bull**** from a dealer. Just make sure that if they are getting a car from Ralliart UK in Dudley that it really is from them and that, if you value the warranty, it is one given by Ralliart UK and not by CCC. All the fuss you will have read about warranties is primarily caused because CCC gave the warranty for both their cars and those supplied by Ralliart. Then, without consulting Ralliart, they changed the rules. That is why Ralliart now give their own warranty. Yes, there are restrictions, but not as tight as those from Ford, BMW or any of the main car makers. Good luck with your car.

MichaelK

Yet again you spout a load of misinformation and prejudice. Ralliart don't say beware of steel turbos . They say that they only supply cars with Titanium ones. Steel turbos are the standard and I know for a fact that the majority of non Ralliart cars imported into the UK have steel turbos. If you speak to Warrander, I am sure they will confirm that. I know that is what they told me and they were the ones who tried to justify the steel turbo by saying that it is better for tuning (utter bull****).

As for confirming what you think of Ralliart, Warre is a Mitsubishi dealership that also supplies Ralliart cars. They are not part of Ralliart and therefore you cannot have a go at Ralliart because an independent dealer talks rubbish. But then again, I forget that you will attack Rallairt for anything whilst at least I defend them because, to date, they have given me better service than I have had from any car dealer, including BMW, Merc and Porsche.

Croz
24-10-2001, 23:42
Sam, my bog standard (at the time!) E7 peaked at 1.35 bar, dropping to 1.2 bar at 7000rpm. Max Output was 294bhp.

Rich_R
25-10-2001, 06:52
Hi Sam

Not dyno'd yet as I've only changed the backbox and and added an HKS racing suction kit. Don't know if boost increased following breathing mods as I fitted the Defi boost guage at the same time.

I used kg/cm as that's what the Defi's display and with the recent posts about the slight difference to bar I thought I'd be accurate for once :)

The scoob was holding 1.3 bar using the hybrid VF22 - never had the final mapping session done following the fmic so would have gone higher. If I start messing around with the VII then I will go the apexi/hks route this time.

Croz - When you put your foot down in 5th do you see 1.2 or 1.4 bar initially? In all other gears I see 1.4 peak immediately but in 5th I see 1.2 which then climbs to 1.4 further up the rev range- strange?

Rich

Michael K
25-10-2001, 08:19
Simon, lol... So you're saying it's o.k. for someone to use the brandname of Ralliart UK and then talk rubbish?!? Your holy Ralliart really have a great control of their organisation don't you think? I wonder, is it because they don't have any training, train them badly or just tell them rubbish right from the start?
And you're also saying that I am having a dig at them at in this thread?? Read it again and you'll find out that it's Sam who just reported what he was told and them various people (including myself AND yourself!) said that it's rubbish what he was told. All I said that this confirms what I think about Ralliart UK and it does! Or are you trying to tell that what Sam got told confirms what a great outfit they are? Do you have a Ralliart shrine where you pray every day? I bet you do...

sam elassar
25-10-2001, 12:35
hi guys
i have just checked the reciept that i got for the deposit and it says 3 yr full ralliart uk warranty. is that ok then ?

know i am even more confused though
although i know for a fact that the E6 did 0.9 bar as standard i am getting two views, RichR and Croz saying that their E7 is boosting to 1.3-1.4 bar now that really ties up with what the dealer said isn't it ?

if it is that then either ralliart modify their cars specially or the EVO VII is running too close to the limit than the 6. is there any chance that the turbo in 7 is smaller than the 6 ? that will explain why they both produce same output at different boost pressure?

Claudiuslow
25-10-2001, 13:49
Maybe they modify them to 1,35 bars peak so they can keep up with the 6s.

Remember that the 7 is slower. Ralliart Germany quote 5,3s from 0 - 100 kmh (62mph) for the 7 and 4,9s for the 6. It was in Sport Auto and will probably be on <a href|EQU| http://www.ralliart.de target|EQU| _blank ><!--autohttp-->http://www.ralliart.de</a><!--autohttp--> [img]http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/tongue1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e4-->

Rich_R
25-10-2001, 17:12
EVO mag tested both the 6 TME and the 7. 0-100 mph was 13.5 sec for the TME and 13 sec for the 7 so there isn't much in it either way.

Sam, the 7 uses a smaller turbine nozzle.

Rich.

sam elassar
25-10-2001, 18:23
cheers rich
that explains things quite a bit, they must have increased the boost pressure to get the power up. reducing the size of the turbine nozzel is like adding a turbo restrictor for rally cars, will increase the torque from lower rpm but will reduce the power at the top end.

i am sure it could be sorted out ;)

you said you changed you back box the broucher say that the EVO VII has got a SS exhaust as standard and it looks pretty straight through to me ? have you removed the car yet ?

sam

Simon7extreme
25-10-2001, 21:00
Michael K

Yes, I do have a shrine that I worship at almost every day. It's called my 7 Extreme and is as life affirming as any religion I know ;)

Simon7extreme
25-10-2001, 21:09
Sam

The Ralliart 3 year warranty is the one to get on a new car. However, be sure to read the small print to understand what you can and cannot do to the car without invalidating the warranty. I know that many complain that it doesn't give much room for mods but it does give some, which is more than can be said of any other warranty I have had on other cars. Also pay attention to what it says about track days, if you are going to do them.

Finally, because the dealer has talked so much bull, I would suggest checking with Ralliart themselves about boost levels and make sure that if the dealer is turning up the boost, Ralliart are OK with that.

sam elassar
25-10-2001, 21:55
come on simon make it easy for me. so what i can and what i can't do then ?


sam

Simon7extreme
25-10-2001, 22:10
Sam

I honestly don't know because my Extreme has it's own warranty. Rather than rely on what people tell you on this board, check it yourself. I would be talking to Ralliart anyway, considering what Warre have been saying, just to verify everything.

BTW, I am sure you will be more than happy with the car when you get it so don't let the dealer ruin it for you.

Croz
26-10-2001, 01:44
Rich,

The boost pressure in 5th does seem a little strange but since my figures are from Rolling Road outputs (3rd gear) I'm not sure what mine does in 5th. I'll shortly be buying a boost gauge, quite fancy the look of the Blitz Indigo, anyone got one of these?
Any recommendations for boost gauges (and pods)?

Rich_R
26-10-2001, 07:48
Sam - the exhaust on the 7 is quite good - only really got the backbox because the standard car sounded like a beemer (compared to my scoob). Will probably de-cat it later in the year when I fit the HKS downpipe which has just come out.

Croz - Cheers I'd be interested to know what boost you are getting initially in 5th when your gauge is fitted. I've got a Defi gauge which is mounted on the steering column. Best prices I have seen are from Craig at www.newagemotorsport.com

If you want pictures let me know although there are plenty on their web site

Rich.