View Full Version : Suspension suggestions please (upto £2000)
I've got the standard eibach lowering spring on my 5 at the moment - the cars almost done on the engine side - now for the suspension.
What would people reccommend / they use for upto £2000 ?
Thinking about the Cusco or HKS HyperMax 2 gear.
Any ideas ?
Whoose best for installations and setups ? (based in Kent)
Cars going to be mainly used on the road, tracking it once a month I reckon. Not worried about a firm ride for the road.
Do the pillowball mounts bed themselves in after a while ?
Cheers,
Gaz
Either are good... main difference is the spring raets.
The Tein setup is also good for the money...
Any monkey can install them, but if you want proper camber setup and corner weighting, let me know. My mechanic can do that for you, with proper FIAA setup gear.
Claudius
06-09-2002, 16:45
You could pick up some Proflex's for just a little over £2000. I even think Splodge once offered them for £2000. That would be another world compared to twin tubes...
japracer
09-09-2002, 18:46
The Hypermax kit on my 6.
Without moving too much on the factory fitting, I have suspension again & handling to go with it.
I am biased of course, you are welcoe to come & test it as you are local, PM me
Rob
I tried the HKS units from standard struts and springs and was very dissapointed. Much too hard for road use and upsets the handling of the car on anything less than a billiard table surface. Have since fitted Eibach lowering springs with the original struts. Since then I have just taken the lap record at my local sprint. My advice stick with the standard struts and Eibachs and spend the £2K elsewhere. Tyre choice will give you much more speed around corners than hard suspension. (My opinion only)
rogerrally
10-09-2002, 08:19
Mike, I have since had the bent adjuster knob straightened out on the HKS suspension, and an upgrade to Proflex softer springs to replace the overly hard progressive ones that came them from Japan. These have made quite a difference.
Will have them fitted for Rockingham
________
Boulevard S50 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_Boulevard_S50)
I have run various suspension setups and my opinion is this :-
Standard struts do not give enough body control, and the eibachs for high speed driving provide too much initial roll. Also, you cannot tune it for a particular circuit or particular conditions.
Very hard springing results in the car struggling to get grip. The total lack of body roll is good on fast corners, but in any real handling scenario you ultimately spend more time correcting the car - so you go slower.
The best setup I have found is having very good dampers, with intermediate springing. Helps to have a hard front, and a softer rear. Helps rear grip, and front turn in, and overall balance of teh car.
If you can afford them, the Ohlins rock :-)
Spring rates I am using now are 90N/mm front, 70N/mm rear. This is good for track, both dry and wet, but too much for the road (this equates to about 500/400 lb springs
For the road either try 400/350 or 450/400 depending how hard you like it.
Linear springs are the best for track and high speed use.Double progressive is good for rally/back road use.
The HKS I believe are areound 650/650 lbs!!! This is WAY too hard. I think this too hard even for track.
But this is just my opinion. What do I know :D
Most of the best suspension setups involve softer springing, and harder anti-rollbars. That way you get good roll stiffness (so less roll) but supple springing to help grip. That lets the damper actually do some work. Better to have a softer spring and a harder damper.
Being able to adjust rebound and bump indepentently is important. Some shocks feature 3 way adjustment.
Essentially, you get what you pay for.
Roger, That sounds like a very positive improvement. Perhaps I shall have another go one day! Unfortunately I shall not be at Rockingham to view the results.
I shall touch base with you in the future to let you know how the rest is going.
Cheers for all the responses on this one - going to decide end of month - list so far
HKS
Cusco
ProFlex
On the pillowball mounts - are these benefical on the rear - most kits only seem to have them on the fronts ?
Cheers,
Gaz
RS Sprint
23-09-2002, 08:48
Don't forget to consider the TEIN HA! Just the right amount of suppleness so it won't throw you off the road and 16 way adjustability w/ tender or helper springs too! :)
Blade is right however, Ohlins rock!
Claudius
23-09-2002, 09:08
Originally posted by Blade
The best setup I have found is having very good dampers, with intermediate springing. Helps to have a hard front, and a softer rear. Helps rear grip, and front turn in, and overall balance of teh car.
If you can afford them, the Ohlins rock :-)
Spring rates I am using now are 90N/mm front, 70N/mm rear. This is good for track, both dry and wet, but too much for the road (this equates to about 500/400 lb springs
But this is just my opinion. What do I know :D
That's your opinion, huh, bitch? :rolleyes:
I'd say it has BECOME your opinion after me hammering it into your big fat ugly head when you were using DMS. :D :p
Right it's either going to be the Cusco Comp 2R (inverted struts) or the TEIN RA/HA.
I've been warned that the TEINs can be to stiff/harsh for the road - looking to track my car once a month I reckon, so mainly backroad blasts at the weekend.
Also, the Cusco's come with the following springs - Fronts 8 kg and Rears 11 kgs - does this sound right ? Blades comments were fronts harder than the rears.
Thanks again,
Gaz
There seem to be 3 schools of thought :-
1) Rear 75% of the front
2) Front+Rear the same
3) Front 75% of the rear.
At the end of the day... the way to do it properly is consider what is the spring doing? Or what should it be doing?
Well, it is supporting the mass of your car. The EVO does not have a 50/50 weight split, so the same spring rates all round does not make sense. It is nose heavy, so a stiffer front makes sense. You also want good rear grip to stop excessive oversteer and skipping - so you want the rear softer again.... so that is whay I believe the 75% at rear is the right way to go.
If you want to use it on the road, then you need to be sensible about spring rates. That means between 6 and 9 kg/mm at the front and 4 and 7 at the rear.
I run 9 front, 7 rear and it is the best compromise i have had. Remember my rear is heavier than yours!!! I have the fuel tank in the boot.
Ohlins come as standard with 9 front 7 rear (that equates to about 500lb/ft front and 400lb/ft rear).
Some suspension guys go harder to provide more roll stiffness at the expense of grip and traction. The best way to get around that is to use stiffer anti-roll bars. Cusco do a 33% stiffer at front, and an adjustable rear up to 66% stiffer to let you fine tune your suspension.
Softer springs with stiffer roll bars are far better than the reverse.
Claudius
24-09-2002, 17:03
Garry,
I dont want to sound patronising or anything, but DONT DO IT.
Get Proflex or Öhlins for hard road use and the occasionnal track day.
Did you ask rogerrally how much he wants for Proflex?
[i]Originally posted by Claudius [/i
I dont want to sound patronising or anything, but DONT DO IT.
Did you ask rogerrally how much he wants for Proflex? [/B]
No worries - I prefer the direct answers :)
rogerrally replied in a previous thread -
"I have a set of Jumbo Proflex on order, costing £3,000 plus vat, could order another set too if wanted, will have older set for sale for £1,750 plus alternative springs, after network Q, 18th Nov"
Are these significantly better then Cusco/TEIN - for Fast Road and occassional Track use ?
Tony cheers for the help also - its making more sense now :)
Also looking at the Cusco roll cages - and Claudius before you ask - No I ain't welding it in :D :D
Cheers a slightly less confused Gaz
Claudius
24-09-2002, 17:52
Originally posted by gaz5
rogerrally replied in a previous thread -
"I have a set of Jumbo Proflex on order, costing £3,000 plus vat, could order another set too if wanted, will have older set for sale for £1,750 plus alternative springs, after network Q, 18th Nov"
He also stated a few months ago something like "I have a set of Proflex suspension for Evo 5/6 for £2000"
£1750 is a bit steep for second hand, but if you get them reconditioned and with the springs you need, dont hesistate!
Jumbos are more expensive, but you dont need those. Jumbos are 50 or 55mm for gravel rally, thicker because of the increased hydraulics work. They are also heavier. Stay away from those.
Originally posted by gaz5
Are these significantly better then Cusco/TEIN - for Fast Road and occassional Track use ?
Yes. With the Jap stuff, you'll bounce off the road. Your car's body shell will disassemble over time and your spine serve as a damper, when in fact the damper should be doing that job. OK for perfectly smooth tarmac, but nothing else. They will also heat up much quicker and become wobbly.
A monotube damper like a Proflex (with the right setup) will absorp the road's potholes and bumps like there arent any!
Originally posted by gaz5
Also looking at the Cusco roll cages - and Claudius before you ask - No I ain't welding it in :D :D
How did you know I would have asked that? :rolleyes: :D :D :D
If you dont weld it in, I'll do it for you when I come over ;)
buy some reiger suspensions group n
it s about 4800 euro ex vat
http://www.reigersuspension.com/pix/gra%20demper.jpg
RS Sprint
26-09-2002, 12:37
Looks nice and mean, but the purple is kinda off.
But for that price, it sure as hell must be fantastic! :D
Z-1 Performance
26-09-2002, 22:46
Tein HA's for general road use and occassional track days.
Tein RA's for more frequent track days or guys wanting a bit more adjsutability.
or the JIC FLTA2..one of the nicest suspension values out there
Adam
Z-1 Performance
www.z1auto.com
BTW guys, just putting some last minute changes in place on our Lancer section..I think you will be quite pleased!
what are the standard springrates of the evo 7 front and rear?
i can buy a set of proflex semi ball beared suspension but i quess what claudius said these are the big ones
they look huge very big tubes they use them in group n
what spring rates should you use if i buy these for road and track
andrehttp://www.belgiumact.com/new4w.jpg
I would advise against Cusco although they look good, they are just too hard for the road. Ohlins are probably best.
Claudius
09-10-2002, 00:26
Andre, for road and track something like 8N/mm front and 7 rear, or 7 front and 6 rear if you dont want it too hard, especially for rain 'n stuff...
I will be getting some Tein kit shortly. Appparently if you don't like the spring rates they offer as standard, you can specify what you want.
HA standard spring rates are 12kg/mm front, 8kg/mm rear: RA are 12kg/mm front, 10kg/mm rear - ie pretty damn hard!
I have not yet checked exactly what range of alternatives are available or what effect this has on price or delivery time, but it seems to allow you to get what suits. I will let you know when I have discussed with the possible suppliers.
Steve.
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