Alignement after fitting strut braces

[scoobymike]

I just fitted a front and rear strut brace from Ralliart on my Mak. Now I think I get some understeer in slow to medium fast corners. On the other hand it is much more stable on fast corners. As I hate understeer (had a Scoob before!) I'm thinking of checking the alignement.

What do you guys think. Can fitting strut braces actually change the feel so noticably?

I have the setup table from Co-Ordsport but have slightly different settings from our Rally preparator (bit less toe-in, bit more aggressive). Maybe I try that.

Cheers

Mike

[Michael K]

My golden rule to combat understeer is to run more camber in the front than in the back. Try 2 degrees front and 1.75 in the back and see how it feels. I'm running 2.3 front and 1.75 back and a mate with a RS is running 2.5 front and 1.75 back. Both settings are with aftermarket suspensions and can't be achieved with the standard one. It think 2.25 is the max on the standard front suspension. The bigger the difference between front and back, the more drifting. This will of course result in an interesting pattern of wear on the fronts, but 2 degrees should be fine, provided you swap the tires round every now and then.

[Lon93GSR]

<blockquote><hr><font size|EQU| 1 >Original Post:</font><!--1-->
What do you guys think. Can fitting strut braces actually change the feel so noticably?

Cheers

Mike<hr></blockquote>

I fitted a front and rear brace to my GSR and it makes a big difference!

[TonyC]

The settings you had before may have worked becuase they took into account the body flex. Eg it was set up with x amount of negative camber and x amount of toe in becuase under load the body flexed slightly and gave you x amount more camber and toe in making the car under/over steer in that condition. The stut braces have stopped the flexing so the alignment is staying fixed through the corner.
Back to the rally prep place and get it changed again [img]http://www.ltregister.f9.co.uk/graphics/Happy.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| middle >

Front and rear strut braces have got to be the best value for money tuning part you can get ?

TonyC

[scoobymike]

Hi guys

after setting the allignement according to the rally preparator and getting some experience with it I can absolutely recommend fitting both strut braces. The car is much more stable under heavy braking and more consistent in its reactions. With my setup the car is completely neutral with a very slight oversteer bias. Also the AYC is much less intrusive just reigning in at the very limit. To put it short I'm more than pleased with the car now. Unfortunately I shagged my tyres after 4'500km and 1'500 of it where bedding in the car!!

In July I'll be on the Ring for two days so this will be the ultimate test for the setup.

Cheers

Mike

[SHORTY [paul s]]

Why don,t ralliart suggest any thing or do anything? ******s!
Sorry but put your faith in an institution and it becomes arip off cult.

[Botchi]

I also fit the requisite strut-braces and the car felt far more unflustered in high-speed and high-g cornering maneouvers! It really should be the first suspension mod one does in his car, Evo or no Evo. [img]http://194.93.140.171/graphics/happy1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e1-->

[blade]

Scoobymike, what settings did you end with then with the strut braces on?

[scoobymike]

I currently run the following settings:

front: - 1.5deg camber on both sides
toe-in 1mm each side

rear: -1deg camber on both sides
toe-in 1mm each side

This works pretty good for me. For road and track use it seems to be a good compromise between handling and tyre wear.

Mike

PS: Castor is set to factory settings

[Thorak]

Hi Guys

I am very interested in your settings as I am playing with my track setup at the mo.
I am doing it very slowly one thing at a time. I find that the lower the car is. Ie. ride height you must be much more agressive with the settings. Still understeering at Brands so I think more camber. I am already running -2deg at front and -1deg at rear. What is the maximun or will the top mounts have to be moved to get this car to turn round hard bends..

Thorak

[Maxi]

Hi!

I would like to know if all of you are talking about the same thing for the camber, do you all mean 2° each side or some mean 2°total?

Also for the front toe, does to in means 'closed', means that the front of the wheels is closed to each other more than the rear of the wheels?

I think that I'm using something like 2° camber each side front and 1.5° camber rear, 0.5mm toe in each side front and 0.00 rear, but I have to check all the settings now as it understeers!

Please can anyone who have the settings from coordsport, rally teams or they own settings that work fine post them as I think they would be helpful for everybody.
We can maybe start a new topic called geometry settings or something like that where everybody post the sttings they are using or different settings that they know and the different impressions.

What do you think about that?

[Claudius]

Get your Profley sorted MAXI! César just told me today how your car was jumping all over the place, understeered and felt ****ed up! Did you know he passed Didier Auriol with a GrN when Auriol had a GrA? [img]http://194.93.140.171/graphics/biggrin1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e13-->

[scoobymike]

Dario

camber is always for every single side, so -1.5deg. on every front wheel, -1deg every rear wheel. Also toe-in means the wheels are pointing to each other with the front. The opposite is called toe-out.
If you'd increase toe-in front and rear on your car it will oversteer more. I'll send the Co-Ordsport settings to you. Check your mail.

Cheers

Mike

[Maxi]

Thank you Scoobymike!

Claudius,
I know that Auriol is not really fast already and probably he was running in a gr.a celica or seat[img]http://194.93.140.171/graphics/biggrin1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e13-->!
I know that my proflex are really used and they will be revised next week, but in fact he was saying that the problem is that my evo v is too low. But I really don't think that it is low because the rear is the same height as your standard tommi makinen edition and the front is only 2cm lower.

Why don't you tell everybody about the good setup that he did on your dynamic suspension with 3,8kg/mm springs that was reaching the bottom when you drive hard and the bend of the valve[img]http://194.93.140.171/graphics/biggrin1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e13-->.

I know that Cesar is a fast driver and a nice guy, but he thinks that if you don't use the evo for the gr.n you should better run bitube proflex!

[Claudius]

That was 3,4kg! You know they were intended for ice race.
Anyway, getting 6kg front and 5 rear.

Scoobybooby, are you sure about the car oversteering more when you increase toe in according to your definition??

[scoobymike]

Claudius

When you increase toe-in at the front it will oversteer more. Too much toe-in will have a bad effect on handling.

On my car with the above settings on B-roads the AYC is working overtime coming out of the corners especially on thighter ones. On faster bends I get nice 4wd drifts. I can also see it on the rear tyres which is scrubbed as the front tyres. With this setup I reach on the same straight about 10km/h more (now including the Hy-Power Muffler) than before (210 instead of 200) which means I can floor it much earlier than before. Don't think the muffler contributes that much.
The car is very chuckable and very good fun on our backroads.

You should also consider tyre pressure. I run 2.5bar at the front and 2.2bar at the back(cold). This suits my driving style. Fitting strut braces is also very recommendable.

Mike

Mike

[Claudius]

Scooby mike

I'm not sure about the toe in in the front, but I would definitely not get toe in in the back! The more you open the back if you know what I mean (toe out) the more the car will oversteer. Agree?
And the more you toe it in in the front, the more it is like turning more the wheel in a certain sense if you know what I mean, which as you know induces understeer. Talking about going INTO a corner here.

[scoobymike]

Claudius

it depends how much bumpsteer the car has to find out the necessary amount of toe-in. That means how much the geometry changes when the suspension is compressed.
The trick is to find out the best compromise between handling and grip. Sure it's nice to have some oversteer but when you really want to go fast it can be a pain like understeer as you can't floor it that hard.
With my current setup I'm very happy. I already tried 3 different settings and this is so far the best. Currently I won't increase camber as the car gets more unstable in high-speed sections with surface changes, bumps etc.

Mike

[The Anarchist]

Very interesting guys thanks[img]http://194.93.140.171/graphics/happy1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e1-->

[advevo]

you must put some toe in at front otherwise youre get youre car searching on straights i don t know the exact wordt sorry for that

more toe out at front would be better to get the car better to turn into corners but will be a **** ride on straights

on the back you must put more toe in i drive 2 mm toe in both sides 4mm total that is ,the car oversteer lot more

most rallycars have a lot toe in at rear to get it sideways at the moment to steer into the corner maybe they run on 4 mm or more on each side but this is for street/track to much

regards

andre

[Chris S]

Mike,

Interesting about the camber - what are you running at? I've had my front end looked at, and they've dialled out a load of toe-in (was at 15mm, which apparently is a lot) and put the camber at 2 degrees (max as mine is a standard car) and I'm getting wheel shake at somewhere between 60-80 mph, dependent on road surface - is this what you meant about instability?

Anyone else got any ideas, as it's driving me nuts (wheel balance checked, tracking OK, new front hubs which clock straight - any more suggestions?)

Chris

[blade]

With similair settings, I also got wheel shake. Seemed to be a problem balancing the standard OZ wheels and tyres. Since changing for BBS lighter wheels and slicks, no problem!

[Michael K]

Your wheels are not the problem, as long as they're properly balanced which is not difficult. Have your wheels checked by another shop and if they're still o.k. it must be your tracking. To set up the tracking on the Evo is not impossibly difficult but there are a large number of gimps out there that mess it up. Go to a place that sets up racecars and let them have a look at it with their equipment and they'll find out what's wrong.

[scoobymike]

Chris

not sure about your toe-in but 15mm can't be correct. I hope you mean 1.5mm. Currently I run 1.5 deg. neg. camber at the front and no problems.
Does your car judder or is it tramlining? If it's tramlining that's pretty normal with such negative camber but can't comment on judder.

If it's judder get your wheels rebalanced, or maybe your tyres are already worn out. Otherwise I would suggest the same as Michael. My car is checked by dudes who also do race car alignements.

Cheers

Mike

[Mark5]

can anyone suggest a company in the Midlands to look at my suspension set up and adjust if required?