Ohlins Rock!

[Blade]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

They are fantastic

Much better than the Drummonds - even as they stand without me tweaking the setup. Impressive body control. Hard to imagine the difference without trying it.

[Claudickus]

;) hehe

[Simon7extreme]

Don't you just hate it when Claudius is right ;) :D :D :D

[Claudickus]

No, I dont! [img]http://www.lancerregister.com/graphics/tongue1.gif border|EQU| 0 align|EQU| absmiddle ><!--e4-->

Simon, have u got a front LSD? If not, get one and tell me if I was right! :D

[Maxi]

Blade,

maybe now u can imagin how fast can be an evo with ohlins, slicks, front ralliart lsd and pagids when you go at the limit down a rally road here in Mc:D!

[Heave Ho Six]

They would have to 'out of this world' for that money ;)

[Roy Boy]

Blade,
Which ones did you fit?

[Blade]

The Group N tarmac spec ones, 50mm with 85N/mm front and 65N/mm rear.

HH6 - they are out of this world.

[moses the quiet one]

how much do ohlins cost, blade is your car an rs, whats the main difference in control between the rs and gsr, ive been offered an evo 6 rs for 15000 he wanted 16999, so need to get back to him isit worth it or should i just wait for the gsr, so pls if u can tell me about the ohlins, how much r they, i have this problem with my car, when i turn left its no problem but sometimes if i turn right,it slides about even in the dry and sometimes it seems instead of going right its going straight on pls if u can help me, jokes aside claude u do need help mate.

thanks

[Claudius san]

<blockquote><hr><font size|EQU| 1 >Original Post:</font><!--1-->
The Group N tarmac spec ones, 50mm with 85N/mm front and 65N/mm rear.

HH6 - they are out of this world.<hr></blockquote>

Could be a little soft in the rear....

[Claudius san]

<blockquote><hr><font size|EQU| 1 >Original Post:</font><!--1-->
ive been offered an evo 6 rs for 15000 <hr></blockquote>

BUY IT NOW!!! Seriously!


<blockquote><hr><font size|EQU| 1 >Original Post:</font><!--1-->
tell me about the ohlins, how much r they<hr></blockquote>

:D hehehe


<blockquote><hr><font size|EQU| 1 >Original Post:</font><!--1-->
i have this problem with my car, when i turn left its no problem but sometimes if i turn right,it slides about even in the dry and sometimes it seems instead of going right its going straight on <hr></blockquote>

Check the alignment and camber settings of the car.


<blockquote><hr><font size|EQU| 1 >Original Post:</font><!--1-->
jokes aside claude u do need help mate.<hr></blockquote>

What do you mean?

[Rallyman]

Blade,

Congratulations on your choice!

I am using 3-way adjustable 60mm Proflex shocks (consensus seems to be they are almost as good as Ohlins) and there is a massive change in handling.

Given that you use your car mainly (or exclusively?) on the track I believe you could have fitted harder springs.

My shocks came with 80 N/mm front and 70 N/mm rear but I found them a bit too harsh for road use, especially under the rain. Now I have 70/60 and it's a great balance for tarmac stages and a track day once in a while.

It would be interesting if you post the change in handling you notice while changing the shocks setup.

[Rallyman]

Sorry....original springs were 90/80, instead of 80/70 (as posted).

[Blade]

Rallyman - the springs are definitely softer than what i had before (which was around 90 front 90 rear :-O)

However, the back was always too hard - it feels pretty good, and we are not running full bump at all, about half way...

Yet to play and properly setup, but it seems good so far...

The springs were the hardest that Ohlin do! I can get more made, as they are made by Faulkener in the UK. Odd size, at 3 inch diameter!

I didn't bother with 3 way adjustment (£600 more) as it seemed overkill for me, but apparently can upgrade at anytime.

Need a nice dry track day to set the up! May get them repacked before that as they aren't low enough for my use!

[Blade]

Rallyman, what geometry are you using, and what are your corner weights?

My overall weight fully loaded (no driver) is 1326kgs. Front camber is 3.5 neg, rear is 2 neg. Toe is parallel front and rear (zero toe). Don't know the ride height, but it is approximately 3 fingers front and 2 fingers rear (gap between tyre and wheel arch :D)

[Rallyman]

Blade,

My geometry settings are as follows:

Camber: -2.5 front and -1 rear
Toe: 1mm toe-in front and no toe rear.
Ride height: 360mm front and 340mm rear (10mm lower than standard TME settings). That's measured from the centre hub to the lower bottom of the wheel arch (not a very accurate way to measure it anyway).

I have not been able to do the corners weights yet. As I have mentioned before in this forum, I moved to Switzerland a couple of days after fitting the suspension. The car is stationed in Spain, so I haven't had time yet to set it up properly, as I only have the chance to drive the car when I fly back to Spain for a weekend once or twice a month (:()

The 90/80 springs were too harsh, especially in the wet: big understeering, sometimes followed by a violent transition to oversteering. I have not had time to check the 70/60 combination under those conditions yet, but in the dry I'm very happy with it, even without finding the appropiate damper settingy yet (that's the next challenge!).

Anyway, if I used my car exclusively on the track, I would probably go for 90/80 springs and up. I know you are quite weight conscious, so despite the roll-cage your car is lighther than mine, so under the same circumstances, you can afford to ride softer spings.

[diamond geezer]

ohlins,proflex are you sure you need these for road and a bit of track use???i have tried proflex two way and three way in various rally cars and the main problem is................testing time..........
to get the best out of the three way takes quite a long time in testing,when you adjust the bump you also adjust a proportion of rebound and vice versa,the two way are better suited to road
and track for most people i would have thought.then there is the cost,both ohlins and proflex are good(possibly the best)under extreme conditions,but how many can justify the extra cash and
upkeep(yes you need to keep on top of them)what do people think of the leda's with external gas cans?i think that they represent fantastic value for money at around£1000 a set.
it would be interesting to have a back to back test!

[clivew]

Have to agree, also Ohlins and Proflex are very strong to cope with the rigours of rallying and are very good at absorbing the loads when the car is landing after a large jump.

If the car is for mostly track use running on super smooth tarmac, suspension of this quality is really not needed as it will not be worked the same and have no where near the same stresses placed on it.

[evo400]

most of the top GRPN cars have gone away from the proflex set up chosing the reiger / ohlins set up . have you gone with the ohlins spring rates tony ???????? you use to run stronger springs on the back . do you need any help getting the DMS fixed ?????? let me know

[evo400]

leda suspension your having a laugh . my friend has this set up on his 22b and has had no end of trouble with them . would not put in the same sentence as dms ohlins reiger proflex /rally units . leda is just what you said cheap suspension ,ok on single venue nova's .. just not up to the job &and its not inverted either as all good suspension should be .

[diamond geezer]

like i said............leda are,and i cant argue about it,a cheap suspension setup.but i honestly cant say they are bad.i would be interested in the problems on the 22b,what are they?as for harder springs on the rear,why?spring rates are usually left soft
to compensate for the lightness of the rear end and to give more
grip.in the wet (less grip)you would usually back of both bump and rebound 2 or 3 clicks on both.
as i said before,it would be interesting to have a back to back test
with proflex,ohlins,leda etc and we could gauge if in the hands of mere mortals the difference is so great.i am not so sure.

[Rallyman]

The reason why I fitted a 3-way Proflex suspension is simply that I got an excellent deal on a lightly used set.

I agree, you need time and the appropiate roads to find the right settings.

Luckily, I have friends who race Gr.N Evos with similar setups, and I sometimes join them for test sessions on stages that are kindly closed to traffic for us by the local police ;)

[Claudius]

Originally posted by diamond geezer
ohlins,proflex are you sure you need these for road and a bit of track use???

That depends on how you drive.


Originally posted by diamond geezer
I have tried proflex two way and three way in various rally cars and the main problem is................testing time..........
to get the best out of the three way takes quite a long time in testing,when you adjust the bump you also adjust a proportion of rebound and vice versa,the two way are better suited to road
and track for most people i would have thought.

You need to be experienced to set them up, no doubt. :)


Originally posted by diamond geezer
what do people think of the leda's with external gas cans?i think that they represent fantastic value for money at around£1000 a set.

I think what my friend evo400 thinks! :)

[evo400]

glad you agree mate . did you get to see the gp ??? if you did was it good ???? what is the sound like as i have only ever heard on the circuits

[Blade]

Well, I agree and disagree!

I have had Leda on my TVR - they were very good for the money.

I think the standard EVO shocks are pretty good too, it is the standard and lowered springs that let the car down. These provide a good track ability with the right springs...

Now, onto "pro" dampers. If what you say is true, then I would notice little difference between, say Drummond 50mm Group N tarmac kit and standard - wrong, the Drummonds were MASSIVELY better. Then, also, there should be little difference between Ohlins and Drummonds - wrong again - huge difference and the ohlins are not set up at all - just on standard ohlins recommended settings!!!!

I do agree that 3 way is over the top - 2 way is enough for track use. I think the spring rates are ok for now, but may increase them... interestingly, the front/rear balance seems quite good, but that may be because i have 33% uprated front and 66% uprated rear anti-roll bars, a totally different weight distribution to the standard car (fuel cell in boot) and overall, much lighter weight. I may be "lucky" and have the right springs.

The dampers are not right though - the ride height is too high for track and needs lowering. The dampers need repacking for this shorter stroke. The current lowest ride height is the max i want it set to. Want to go down another 30 to 40mm. Then it will be nice :-D
May need shorter/harder springs at that point.

Need to experiment and play, but for the momeny - just enjoying the car.

[Blade]

Rallyman, run more camber. Even 3.5 deg negative front in the wet works - amazingly. Turn in is FAR better and I get no understeer at all and no snap oversteer, just progressive behaviour. Thinking of going back to 1mm toe - want to play more.

This much camber is not great on the road though! The car is always turning basically, so any camber on road it it dives towards the camber!

[Evoboy]

Blade,
With that much front camber how is tyre wear on the road , also how about braking stability on road and track ?
BTW have u had any wheel bearing problems yet ?

[Blade]

Braking is excellent, tyre wear is perfect, no bearing problems.

Evoboy - when you were in the car at Donny it ran 3 degrees of camber then!!!

Did you notice anything other than spleen-removing braking??

:D

[Claudius]

Originally posted by evo400
glad you agree mate . did you get to see the gp ??? if you did was it good ???? what is the sound like as i have only ever heard on the circuits

I saw the GP on TV. Watched the start and saw the end :(LOUD AS HELL in town!!! :D Check my Monaco GP thread on www.lancerforums.com

[Evoboy]

Originally posted by Blade
Braking is excellent, tyre wear is perfect, no bearing problems.

Evoboy - when you were in the car at Donny it ran 3 degrees of camber then!!!

Did you notice anything other than spleen-removing braking??

:D

Wasn't questioning , just curious , I'm just about 2 re-suspend mine and wanted 2 know if there were any side effects 2 yr settings.
BTW , do u run pillow ball mounts front and rear ?

[Blade]

Yup, I do... what suspenders you going for then?

[oli goon]

Blade,

what you seem to be saying in one of your postings is that the standard shocks are not too bad but the standard springs are not good. Is this right?

The standard springs are 3.2/4.6 kg/mm f/r aren't they? You would normally expect harder springs at the front so extrapolating from your comment above, if the front springs were changed for say 5.5 kg/mm ones then the car would handle better?

[Blade]

Oli - the dampers are OK, but not that great either. Actually the standard springs are good, but too long and too high.

You really need adjustable ride height to corner weight the car and balance it all out. Adjustable damper is preferred so that you can get the characteristics you want when driving.

If keeping standard dampers, the best compromise would be shorter, linear (not progressive) springs.

Incidentally, i think you have the F/R spring rates the wrong way round - the back is softer than the front on a standard car, as the weight is mostly at the front of the car (55% I think).

55/45 might be too hard for the road... but spring rates and ride heights are a bit of an individual preference.

With harder springs you need rebound adjustment to compensate for the stiffness...

it is all very complicated :(
and expensive :(

[Maxi]

I've been told that std springs are harder on the rear.

[oli goon]

Thanks for the replies blade/maxi.

I'm not 100% certain about the standard spring rates as it was some data that was quoted on this forum without any statement of where it came from. It is however beliveable as it is possible to load up the boot with alot of gear which would require harder rear springs than would otherwise be desirable from a purely performance perspective. At the end of the day the evo is a 4 door family sized saloon with a decent boot and some dickheads (like me) use it as such :rolleyes:

You're right about the adjustable ride height/rebound etc as being desirable, however as a cheap first mod a pair of shorter (say 10-15mm) and stiffer (say 50 N/mm) front springs might be worthwhile?

[Blade]

In a word, yes... you can get cheap kits to turn any spring into an adjustable ride height (Demon Squeaks do them).

As for poundage, I would probably go softer in the back than the front. Ohlins for tarmac go 65/45 I think. I went 85/65 this time round :). Previous DMS setup was something like 95/95 with the custom Eibachs. Front was very good, but rear was just too hard. Ohlins prefer to go with a softer spring and harder damper so you get grip and control, and go for stiffer anti-roll bars to improve roll stiffness. I am inclined to agree - gives you a much more progressive car.

I would also consider uprated anti roll bars. Make sure you get linear, not progressive springs.