Eibach's for EVO 6

[sid6]

Hi Guy's
A very simple question from a very simple person with not much tech knowledge, well not on car suspension.
I have an EVO VI and go great but looks like wife's X5, in fact EVO has more ground clearance than X5
So when i fit Eibachs
Howmuch to fay for springs, fitting and alignment
What is the settings to get it such that it has more oversteer than standard, but not much only looking for crisper turn in.
What is ride like compared to original and how lower is it fron and back
I know this has been covered before but to lazy to trawl through archives for info.
Thanks in advance
Also see you all at Star Performanec tomorrow

SiD

[Bizz]

Sid, I have a 6 with standard shocks and springs on it and a mate of mine has standard shocks with Eibach springs on his. He took me to a Goodwood track day a couple of weeks ago and the ride was very impressive, not only did the car roll less in the corners but the bumps were not as harsh as with standard springs. IMHO I think they are a big improvement over standard, but what I find hard to understand is how they can offer less body roll in corners but be smoother over the bumpy bits.

Oh well, I was impressed.

Dave.

[Blade]

They offer less roll on corners because they are shorter. Therefore the centre of gravity is lower which results in less roll - think of a see-saw. mount the center point lower, and the see saw cannot pivot as much - it is the same principle.

They are smoother over bumps as the Eibachs are progressive not linear. That means they stiffen up as more force (weight) is applied to the spring. Little ruts mean small spring movements |EQU| soft response. Fast turn in means larger movement |EQU| hard response. Standard springs are linear in response - so hard all the time.

[eric]

does this mean that the eibachs would be better for your factory shocks because they are softer at certain times? would you guys suggets aftermarket spings on factory shocks?

[evo400]

yes most ralliart cars had the eibach springs fitted . they work well on standard car . you rely on eibach they make springs for all the f1 grid as well as wrc cars dtm etc . so they do no there stuff.

[sid6]

Thanks fo rthe advice guys it was what i wanted to hear.
Only remaining question is if the springs are progressive then this implies that for the first small amount of travel they are softer than standard? My fear is that in Aberdeenshire the roads are bumpy and undulating, as Eric / Joey will agree, will the Eibachs be floaty in these circumstance as this is NOT what i want. I would like the ride to be smoother but not at the expense of a floaty ride. If any body as experience of Eibachs with Standard Shocks on uuneven and undulating roads could you please take amount to describe the ride.


Thanks in advance.

Sid :)

[slowboy]

For the last 18 months I have run my VI with Eibach springs and standard shocks. During this time I have avoided motorways (when ever possible) and stuck to the back roads of central and northern Scotland. Over these typically uneven and bumpy roads, I have found the Eibach's to be markedly superior to the standard springs in virtually every way: less roll on initial turn in, far better resistance to lifting wheels over hump backed bridges! and easier slide correction when its all gone wrong. During all this time I have not been aware of introducing any "float" into the handling.

However, one thing they do seem to do is transfer more of the road unevenness through to the steering wheel, this is seen by the wheel moving around in your hands more than I remember with the original springs - although it could be because I am travelling faster down the same stretch of road than I used to.

Despite this minor gripe, 18 months on, I still think that fitting the Eibachs was the best £250 I have spent on the evo so far, (closely followed by front upper and lower suspension braces which tightened the whole thing up even further).

Hope this helps.

slowboy

[sid6]

Slowboy
Thanks for that the Eibachs will be ordered as soon as England get out og=f HRH's arse and get back to work on Wednesday
Did you get the suspension reset to standard and who did the job?

Sid

Ps will also order complete magnex at same time

[slowboy]

Sid

Still playing with suspension settings (after 18 months!), just had new tyres fitted PZero Asimmetricos - v good but getting understeer (yuck) so will have to reduce the toe in at the back to balance it up again. Current settings are:

Front camber; - 2.5 (minor mods to standard front struts to get this figure)
Rear camber; - 1.5

Front toe in; 2.5mm
Rear toe in; 2.5mm (will reset to about 1.0 to 1.5mm)

I use a company in Edinburgh, C.L.C.M. (0131 458 5559). They provide excellent service at a good price and are the best I have found so far. Prevoiusly tried 2 other companies, both of whom did not do what I asked them to do, despite assuring me they had!

The good thing about CLCM is that they will set your car up as you want it, standard, fast road, race or anything in between.

slowboy

[sid6]

Cheers for that will get in touch with them tomorrow
I will post feedback from them later

Sid:D :D :D

[slowboy]

Sid

Ask for Willie, he's a top bloke and will sort you out.

slowboy

[Heave Ho Six]

Slowboy,
If you haven't already, with the P-zeros try increasing the tyre pressures all round as the sidewalls are softer than most tyres. You can also make the increase on the fronts slightly more than the rears if need be to help out understeer. I don't get understeer in the dry but still get some in the wet which I can live with.

I am currently running (E6, front factory upper 3 point strut brace, front MiNES lower arm bar (4-point)):
Front:
Camber = -1.6
Toe-in = 0mm
Tyre Pressure = 2.4 bar (going to try 2.5 bar)

Rear:
Camber = -1.0
Toe-in = 1mm
Tyre Pressure = 2.1 bar

It's interesting you are running 2.5mm toe-in on the front. Any reason behind that? If you are mainly on twisty roads then you should be able to improve turn in by reducing toe, even going for toe-out.

I think I will also go for eibachs springs but I will try and get a set of adjustable top mounts as lowering springs mean more static neg camber which I don't want any more than I have now. I really want to get some more positive castor instead (which means more dynamic neg camber, i.e. neg camber when you want it).

[Rosco]

I've been running Eibachs on mine for 5 months now. It was my car that Bizz was refering to earlier on.
The Isle of Wight is renowned for bumpy roads and I can only say that the ride quality and assurance of grip has improved tremendously. My settings are:
Front Camber - 2.25
Toe In 1mm
Rear Camber - 1.75
Toe In 1mm
The camber was the least we could get it to, as I didn't really want quite so much. As it happens, the tyres are wearing very evenly apart from the very edges which are scuffed to hell now!

In the dry this gives a very neutral drive but you can induce oversteer by trailing the brakes a little into corners or giving a little tug on the wheel when entering a corner. Very controlable so far :D. Haven't really experienced the wet yet!
One thing though, you shouldn't be paying anymore than £130 + VAT for the springs and they are easy to fit once you have got /borrowed a spring compressor.

Steve

[sid6]

Rosco
Thanks for the assurance
I am about to order the srprings and Magnex this week, had a quick look and £130 + vat seems general price will haggle for better deal on Magnex and Eibachs. Any suggestion who is offerin best deal at the moment or in general

On the subject of camber "this is the least we could get it to" does this mean that you were going more a camber nearer 0 or a more negative camber

Will get my mate to fit the and get car laser aligned at his work large VW/Audi dealership in Aberdeen

Any ideas how long to fit all four springs so i can give an idea of time?

Sid
:) :)

[Rosco]

Originally I wasn't going to set it at quite so much negative camber, but had no choice in the matter.
It took me about 4 hours to fit the springs. Would have been about three, but I couldn't undo one of the bolts on the rear, so I took the whole arm out in the end! Still not a problem as all the geometry had to be set up anyway! Also bear in mind I had to take out the wood work out of the boot to get the rear lining out.
Good luck;)
Steve

[slowboy]

HH6

Thanks for the advice concerning the PZeros, I will try increasing the pressures as you suggest.

With respect to your question about the front toe in, I have had several chats with Tony Cox of Ralliart (or is it now Extreme?) and he suggested I run about 2mm toe in (the recommended track day set up for evo VI's).

I will probably try to rebalance the handling through a combination of your tyre pressure mods and taking some toe off the back. If this doesn't fully do the trick I will then resort to reducing front toe, if that doesn't work I'll just have to sell the beast - not.

I also like your suggestion of increasing the castor action and developing more dynamic negative camber, as this would enable my tyres to last longer as I would be able to run less static negative and still generate the required bite through corners. Any suitable top mounts that you can recommend?

Thanks again

Slowboy

[fish_bate]

Does anyone know the spring rates for the Eibachs, and by how much they lower the vehicle?
I'm guessing 30mm.

Also, are the specs of the springs the same as the ones for the Evo VII?

[clivew]

Don't know how much the Eibachs lower the car but the spring rates are as follows;

Front: 171lbs/in - 232lbs/in

Rear: 143lbs/in - 312lbs/in

or in N/mm

Front: 30.1N/mm - 40.8N/mm

Rear: 25.2N/mm - 54.8N/mm

The reason for the two figures is because the springs are progressive and so stiffen up as they compress. The first figure is for the first inch of compression and the second is for the last inch of compression.

[SwinYE5]

Apparently, the front is lowered by 28mm and the rear by 14mm.

[fish_bate]

thanks!

[Humble]

Hi All,

I'm in South East Asia. Even though there are a number of Eibach distributors here but they can't seem to know for sure whether Eibach manufactures Prokit Spring for E6 TME. Based of this forum, I told them that you guys in UK use mostly Eibach and it must be the same ones used on E6 GSR (CP9A), correct me if I'm wrong???

There's another maker....."kgmm". Have you guys heard? Not sure they are progressive or not but my guess is that they are very stiff, which doesn't suit my preference.

So, please tell me, TME and GSR owners out there, are your Eibachs the same one for both or different. Appreciate your help.

Humble;)

[rsnk]

So,
Does anyone have the part# of the Eibach springs for a E6 RS2 (probably same as E6 GSR)
René